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00:06 James

Hi, I'm James Turner. I won two gold medals and broke a world record in Paris. And you're listening to leisure link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia radio network.

00:40 Peter

It's just gone 5:00 and with the test match on in India, we channel a bit of Asha Bhosle and also Brett Lee and you're the one for me. Well, certainly the one for me - to welcome to the Leisure Link here on Virgin Australia Radio, 1197 AM in Adelaide, online at VA radio, Warrego Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin through the TuneIn radio app, your favourite Favorite podcast or streaming service... our friends listening through 103.9 Hope FM and Esperance in Western Australia. And also thanks to the great people at Australian Disability Media through their platform powered media... p o w e r d dot media. Peter Greco saying much better to be here than at the cricket. This program coming to you from Kaurna land. No contest about that!

Coming to you very, very shortly: we'll speak to James Turner OAM, our male Para-athlete of the Year. James had a great time in Paris. It wasn't all beer and skittles. James will share that with us. We'll speak to Georgia Beikoff. Georgia is just back with the Para Matildas - who have won the World Cup, the first senior team ever to do that in the sport of football. We'll also catch up with Gareth Hogan from the Making Waves organisation, who will preview the Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race and their boat Kayle. How is it coming along? David Mitchell will join us looking at a blood test, and in particular when you're under as far as some vitamins and minerals go, what can we do about it? Very important message. 

Brenda Hellyer will join us from Brewed by Belinda, The Brew That Is True. And if I say to you, Belinda has got some really cool ideas for tea. Say, listening. You will know what I mean. So catch up with Abby Jayasuriya from Guide Dogs NSW Act. They did something very special for Black Friday and also a great message. We'll find out more about that. Kirra Prendergast will join us - keeping ourselves safe, keeping our children safe in the metaverse. Kirra has got some great tips. And Fiona Dawson will join us from Supported Travel Experience. Fiona is calling on 2025 to be the accessible year for tourism. What a fabulous idea! 

Well, I'm absolutely delighted to welcome to the program... I personally loved the program a few times over the years, it just keeps getting better and better... James Turner. James, welcome. Thanks for your time.

03:07 James

Thanks for having me, Peter.

03:09 Peter

What about your year? Oh, quite a year.

03:12 James

Yeah, it's been a big year. There's been some ups. There's been some downs, but a lot of hard work. But, I mean, every year has got its own little challenges, doesn't it?

03:20 Peter

I guess when you set out to the beginning of the year, you probably set goals and you know, so I'd like to achieve this. And of course, you probably would have been pretty confident of being selected for Paris. Maybe some things you can't sort of... program for or take into account.

03:36 James

Yeah, I did set some goals. I remember at the start I said at Nationals that I plan to go to Paris, break the world record in the 400m and also win the 100m. And then I right before the Paralympics, two months before the Paralympics, I got glandular fever and was down there for a bit. So that was a bit of a challenge that my country and I had to work through, but, well, we got through it.

04:03 Peter

A lot of athletes get it. It's a pretty hard thing to a recover from, but also to sort of recover from in a way that you can then competing successfully. I mean, to recover from it for everyday life is one thing, but then to be competing at an elite level is another.

04:16 James

Absolutely... we had to change our training plan extensively, to get get me ready to to race at Paris like we were looking at. Well, I was even thinking that I might not even make the games. I might not even get to the start line. But, yeah, like for my squad stuck behind me. They believed in me and they got me through to achieve the goals that I'd set out earlier in the year.

04:44 Peter

You've got obviously a team around you, a team behind you and obviously a lot of support, which is fantastic. I guess for you to utilize it to the best of your ability is another thing. What about just sort of physically getting over the glandular fever. Did you do anything special or seek anything? A little bit, shall we say alternative or complementary to help you there as well?

05:03 James

Yeah. We... looked at every avenue to help. I saw the doctors. I had a look at my diet. I even went to an acupuncturist down the street there, and, uh, which, you know, isn't something that I'd usually do, but it seemed to get me back on the horse. So that was that was really good. All sorts of things that we were avenues were looking down to get me back. 

05:29 Peter

Really - leave no stone unturned.

05:30 James

Absolutely... because, you know, going to the games is really important to me. So I didn't really want to give up on it too easily.

05:38 Peter

So what about the games themselves then? How are you feeling? You know, just before competing, I guess you're obviously pretty nervous in the adrenaline's pumping. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing when you're recovering from glandular fever, because I guess, you know, being in the zone is one thing, but, you know, trying to not be over hyped is another. How do you feel? How were you? How do you think you were feeling? If you know what I mean.

05:58 James

While I was at the games, I felt pretty good. I didn't feel completely on top of my game, but I felt pretty close, and I just sort of went into it with the attitude that I'd do my best. And if I get all the all the small things right, then they'll add up to a pretty good result. And I didn't really have too much expectations for myself going into it, because of course, with my sickness. But... I believed that I could compete well because of all the... well, the years of training that I've had that have been uninterrupted games.

06:36 Peter

You won the, Won on the 400. To a casual observer, of course, they're a fair bit different. What about in terms of... during the race? I'm kind of thinking in the 100, you haven't got much time to think. You're just going as flat out as you can for the time. Or are there some tactics in the 100 as well as the 400?

06:52 James

With the 100, it's basically full ball as fast as you can go the whole way. Uh, just run in a straight line as fast as you can. Not too much time to think. But I did have enough time to think. Oh, no, I'm coming fourth. I better pull something out of my pocket at 50m to go with the four. I mean, you've got almost a minute to, you know, to to think about what you're doing, but really, I'm don't really have the head space to really think about much more than how I'm running. And the next step that I've got to take.

07:27 Peter

And the world record. Is that a bonus? Obviously it's a bonus, but how much of a bonus is it?

07:32 James

It is a dream come true. When I'd set my goals early in the year that I wanted to break the world record in the four, you know, I felt that I could get it. But as soon as I got sick, I thought, jeez, I'll be lucky to even finish a 400m. So to come away with the world record is a massive bonus to me, and if I'm being completely honest, I think not thinking about getting the world record is what allowed me to perform at the best of my abilities to get the world record. In the past, I think I've been in my head too much about getting the time that I want to get, and that's really hindered my ability to race properly.

08:11 Peter

When did you know you'd broken the world record?

08:13 James

I knew I'd broken the world record about 4 or 5 steps after the finish line when it came up on the big screen. So that was pretty intense for me. I was I was just full of emotion when that happened... because, you know, I when I was running the race, I thought, Well, I'm doing pretty well, I might get a decent time. It's not I even I even thought that, you know, Oh it's not, I'm not running as slow as I thought I'd be. And then I crossed the line to... world record, you know which it was. Yeah. It was a dream come true.

08:51 Peter

I'm not going to say, Did your life flash before your eyes? But I guess the last few months flash a flash before your eyes in terms of what you'd been through. And you know, that kind of sweet smell of success.

09:03 James

Oh, absolutely... it's been like the last seven years of working towards this. Like, there's a lot of people have put so much effort into getting me to where I am. And when I got glandular fever, I felt really downtrodden that, you know, I was going to let them down. I was really worried about it. But to so to come to come back with the world record in the 400m, it was a very proud moment for me. And... you know, huge relief. Yeah.

09:32 Peter

Of course you won two gold medals. Australia did really well. I mean, to stand out like that, like you kind of appreciate even now, what, 3 or 4 months after the event, you kind of appreciate how momentous occasion that was. I mean, one gold medal is incredible, but to win two and a world record, I mean that's you know, that's right up, that's in the stratosphere.

09:53 James

Absolutely. It was pretty much the perfect competition for me to redeem myself from Tokyo, where I stuffed up the start of the race, and that cost me the win in the 100m in Tokyo, to... redeem myself after being sick in Paris. It was absolutely magical. Just a brilliant competition. I'm so glad that I could do that for everyone that's been supporting me, and everyone that's put their hopes into me.

10:23 Peter

I've spoken to a few of the athletes that you've been back, and I keep asking, were you aware of the Australian support and what great coverage you were getting? Of course you were getting a lot of great coverage just because of your performances. Were you aware of that at the time, or is it something that you kind of caught up with since being back?

10:39 James

I wasn't really that aware of it at the time. Like, I knew that I'd be getting some coverage because of how it went. But I actually, by the time I got back, like the whole Paralympics, fever had died down. So it had it all because I had a bit of a holiday with my family for a little bit in Europe before I came back. So I came back and it was all quiet on the home front again. So I came back completely unaware of any media that had happened.

11:07 Peter

And you've been recognised with another award in recent days?

11:11 James

Yes, I have, um, I have been awarded with the great honour of receiving... Male Para-athlete of the Year at the AIS Sport Performance Awards. It was sponsored by International Day of People with Disabilities Australia. So I'd like to thank them for sponsoring the award. Well, it's great to be out there demonstrating that, you know, our athletes, you know, we're just athletes in a different race. And, you know, people with disabilities are just people with different challenges in their lives.

11:44 Peter

It's a very powerful message and very well said. And of course, you know, to win... the male athlete of the year in a... Paralympic year. I mean, kind of been a bit more than a non Paralympic year with due deference to those winners in other years.

11:58 James

Yeah. To to win an award like this in any years I think an absolute honor. But yes. On a Paralympic year, everyone's trying to be their best and and to be able to perform at the level that it takes to win an award like that on a Paralympic year, I think is, I'm very proud of being able to do that. And it's not just me that does that. Everyone that I've got around me, especially my coach Irena, who's notorious for being able to get her athlete in the best condition possible on the day. So I owe a lot to her to be out... here getting awards.

12:36 Peter

James, you're still a young man. Is it fair for me to ask you what's next for you? Or do you want to just smell the roses or the coffee or whatever you want to smell for the next little while?

12:45 James

Well, I'm always wanting to improve on what I'm doing. I've... already sorted out what what marks I want to get next. So, you know, I'm going to continue training and doing my best to continue living, you know, every athlete's dream, I suppose, as long as I can. 

13:04 Peter

Terrific. And you're back to good health. I mean, obviously, the world record of the two gold medals suggests that you probably were. But I guess, you know, there's probably a bit more about that. You feel like you're sort of back on top of things now.

13:16 James

I'm not completely recovered. Yeah... my fitness is still a bit on shaky ground, so we're still working on getting me back to full fitness, but it's, you know, it's always a pretty long recovery. I probably lengthened my recovery by doing what I did at Paris, but it was worth it. But, you know, I'll be flying back in no time.

13:40 Peter

James, I know you've had plenty of requests. I know since you've been back, even though it had died down a bit since winning that male athlete of the year. You've had a lot of requests, so we appreciate you making some time for us. I always enjoy speaking to you. Congratulations on all you're achieving and I look forward to continuing to follow your progress.

13:57 James

Thanks so much, Peter... and also thanks for keeping us visible to the Australian public. 

14:04 Peter

Well, you're very kind. James Turner there - two gold medals, a world record and Male Para-athlete of the Year. What a guest to have on the program. It's certainly our privilege. And look, there's still a few more chapters to write in the James Turner story. 

What an exotic and enthralling performance it was by our Commbank Para Matildas - taking out the World Cup just a few days ago. Let's speak to one of the stars of the team, Georgia Beikoff. Georgia, welcome and congratulations.

14:35 Georgia

Thank you so much. Thanks, Pete.

14:37 Peter

Are your feet back on the ground? Nellie? Nellie.

14:41 Georgia

It's been quite the wild ride. I, it's... I mean, I've been back for maybe just over a week and a half now, but... yeah, it's still buzzing. Very much so.

14:57 Peter

Well, tell us about the event. It was a big event, obviously, the World Cup event. So it doesn't get much bigger than this.

15:03 Georgia

No, I think that I mean, this is the highest that we'll be able to compete for CP football. So I mean it's such a privilege that we were able to go over and have our second World Cup tournament. And yeah, I mean, I think we're, I mean, it was such a successful tournament for us. And I think we were in a little bit of shock and in awe. We knew that we could put up a good fight, especially against the US. We know that USA are massive in sport, let alone in women's football. But... yeah, we we took it to the next level. And I'm just so proud of the girls. And... we kept our heads down and... yeah, took the gold home.

15:47 Peter

We had a quick chat before coming to it. It was two and a half years ago where the US played us, but we were very competitive in that match against the US. So two and a half years later, things can change.

15:57 Georgia

Yes, very much so. I think... two and a half years sometimes doesn't seem all that much time. But... we've been working really hard and our squad has evolved and become bigger. And, um, there's lots of girls who have joined us who have. Yeah. Offered a lot more... to the team in terms of not just skill, but just character as well. And... the results that we got and the fact that we won every game... we were undefeated, I think... it's testament to the heart that we have as a team.

16:32 Peter

What about the final and particularly the final whistle? Can you describe that moment? Will it ever leave you? 

16:37 Georgia

I don't think so. We were 2-1 down at half time and I don't remember. I don't remember us feeling all that concerned or worried, and I think it was because we felt quite confident because we beat the US in the group stage match. I think we still had, you know, that confidence of coming back with a win. If we kept our heads down and stuck to our game plan... but for some reason we just went to a different gear, next level in the second half and... yeah, scoring five goals in 25 minutes. And this is not even talking about extra time. 

And... Caitlin Smith, our goalkeeper, you know, she's been practicing her... she's very talented and been practicing her long shots from from her goal box. And you need a fair, yeah, a fair bit of accuracy, too. She got two goals from her box and a goal from the penalty spot. And... once we got to three goals and then we ended up just keep... yeah, we just ran away with it, I suppose. And... it was absolutely thrilling. Yeah. I don't think there are many words that we can really...

17:59 Peter

Yeah. The more you practice, the luckier you get.

18:01 Georgia

Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know about luck, but... we, yeah, it was it was pretty incredible. And the atmosphere... I think that's one, I mean, coming, winning the whole thing, you know, is very special. But there are lots of other things about that tournament that is...yeah, they all hold very dearly to my heart - like the Irish team, the relationship that we've built with them. And, you know, they were there throughout the whole final and chanting for us and cheering for us nonstop. It was really, really quite incredible. Yeah.

18:37 Peter

Georgia, any one in particular... you talked about Caitlyn, anyone in particular that is worth highlighting, or... I mean, when you win something like this, it's got to be a total team effort, doesn't it?

18:45 Georgia

Yeah. Gosh, I think... that's one thing that I've been reflecting on... the tournament and.. how far we've come. I think we've really found cohesion amongst the team. Like, we're really, you know, we're a team. And I think most of those goals that we did get apart from Caitlyn, I mean, she's a goalkeeper. But those goals that we got, you know, field goals I should say, were very much team goals. 

But... one player in particular that I think is very much an unsung heroe is Talia Blanchard. She's one of our defenders and she's an FT1. So the classification system, her disability, she's more impaired than than most of us. But I am just in awe of how she moves her body despite her limitations or restrictions. I should say she's a wonderful player and she's so reliable on the field. And you know, they do say, goals win matches, but... strong defence, you know, win tournaments - and day in and day out, she's so reliable and I love having her on... our team. 

And... it was really a wonderful, wonderful moment when she got to go a goal against the US in the group stage game. I think it was her first international goal in a tournament. I think she scored one against Japan in a friendly match, but that was a really special moment and we were just thrilled for her. So, um, I couldn't speak more highly of her. She's... an amazing player.

20:27 Peter

That is such a great point you make because, you know, with the sport like this, you know, the different categories and a lot of people don't understand it, which is kind of fair enough. But it's really good of you to kind of single that out because it, you know, takes all types of players in a sense, to make up a team and, you know, without being discriminatory, like all players are not created equal in a sense.

20:48 Georgia

Yeah. I mean, that's that's right. And I think I spoke to you the last time we chatted about my disability... in particular, that, you know, my disability is probably more invisible compared to others, you know, but we all have our different challenges. And... yeah, I'm so proud of the girls and how they they're so creative in ways of thinking about how to get over that next hurdle. You know, we've got a player who's just joined us within the last 12 to 18 months. She had a stroke three years ago, I think. 

And she's back playing football and, you know, she was in a wheelchair for a long time and she didn't want to be. And so she's so innovative. She designed her own, I suppose. I don't know what you would call it. I mean, I think she calls it... something to help her be able to... walk.

21:49 Peter

Program sort of thing.

21:50 Georgia

Well, like, sort of like, uh, it's it comes around her waist and she's got sort of like a chubby theraband. Essentially. She's told us, you know, she doesn't really her brain doesn't really have a hamstring. And so, you know, that her brain can't tell her leg how to do that, uh, motion of walking. And she, you know, when we first met her, she was saying she's done 15 different prototypes, and, you know, just kept. She didn't give up. She just kept working on. Yeah. On this. And then she came back into football. Because I think she played quite a fair bit of football before her stroke. 

And the things that were, you know, because I think that there's a few metal parts that are attached to her, her waist and her foot and her knee... and so it was a little bit dangerous playing football with that. And so she had to go back to the drawing board and, and now she's created this Velcro wrap that goes pretty much from her ankle all the way to her hip. But, you know, she's playing football for Australia. She scored a hat trick in her very first game. So, um. And she's such a ray of sunshine. Becky Jones is her name, and... I think everyone should be keeping an eye on her because, yeah. She's wonderful.

23:10 Peter

Georgia, you're a ray of sunshine as well. Thank you so much. And congratulations to you, the entire team, for your performance. It's lifted the whole country. And... we're out of time. Totally. But it's... a historical moment for Australian sport, isn't it? First... Australian football team to win.

23:25 Georgia

Yeah. First ever in history, which... sounds pretty good to me... I mean, it sounds very, very weird, to even say that we're world champions, but, it's very special knowing that we are the first ever... senior football Australian football team to win a world title.

23:44 Peter

So, yeah, no one can take that away from you, Georgia. Thanks again and well done. Thanks, Pete. That's Georgia Beikoff, one of our comeback Matildas - world champions. That's a wonderful performance. And in particular on the world stage or on the Australian stage as far as the first senior football team to do that.

24:07 Patrick

My name is Patrick Jensen and I'm a two time Winter Paralympian. You're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

24:18 SONG

Whoa! I've got some wild, wild life. I'm done...

24:24 Peter

Well, the Rolex Sydney-Hobart Race is a huge race, of course. Boxing Day, time-honoured. Indeed. And there's something very special is happening Monday evening on behalf of the Making Waves Foundation. Let's chat about it with Gareth Hogan. Gareth, great to meet you and thank you for your time and must be very excited.

24:41 Gareth

Absolutely, Peter. Firstly, thank you for this opportunity to talk about making waves and our involvement in the Rolex Sydney to Hobart race. And yeah, we're we're very, very excited as we head into our 22nd participation in this great event.

24:53 Peter

It's a very impressive record.

24:55 Gareth

Absolutely. We were founded in 1994 with our first attempt to take people with disability on... sailing's obviously most challenging event. And the 29 years onward, we're now into our 22nd, with the crew that has 50% living with disability and a fantastic repertoire of sailing skills and tenacity behind them.

25:17 Peter

And a very impressive. Kind of record, too, as far as the event goes. You, as in your crews over the years, have done a tremendous job, you know. Very, very competitive. You know, at the pointy end of... the boat, if I can put it that way.

25:31 Gareth

Yeah, absolutely. Peter, we've been very, very fortunate with the crew and the volunteers that have put themselves forward for this event. And obviously, the entire point of the Making Way Foundation is to advocate for people with disability and making sure that people with a disability out there know that they can do whatever they put their minds to it. And sailing the Rolex and the Hobart is, is, you know, no different. And... ultimately we don't just do it just to finish, but we do it to actually prove a point. And I think the crews over the years have done a phenomenal job in stamping their foot in that area. 

26:06 Peter

I think you're being a bit modest saying you've been fortunate. I think it's probably been good management and all that sort of stuff that's made it happen. Tell us a bit about Monday evening. You got a major event happening? 

26:16 Gareth

Yes. So we have our annual Sydney to Hobart crew sendoff, where the crew will make themselves availability over for an overnight weekend of training. And we will effectively create a bit of awareness and promotion for them. Meet some of the crew, create some some auction items and some fundraising, obviously for the event and for making foundation and have some phenomenal guest speakers such as Wendy Tuck as well as the rest of the staff are making waves and a lot of the volunteers that will just descend on on Middle Harbour Yacht Club and effectively, then the crew, with the warm wishes and a whole bunch of support behind them.

26:55 Peter

One of the great things you do, obviously, is being involved in the Rolex Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race - but you do a lot more throughout the year as well, don't you?

27:03 Gareth

Yeah, absolutely. This is just one of the events that we do put on to really showcase our support and advocacy for disability. But essentially, the Making Waves Foundation is an organisation that empowers children living with disability, or youth living with social disadvantage to really step outside of their day to day lives and get an understanding of what sailing can offer them, and the phenomenal development and empowering opportunity that they can get from being out on the harbour. 

So we have five yachts across five ports: Sydney, Newcastle, Brisbane, Geelong and Melbourne, and essentially we look to take out around 5000 participants every year, either on the water or we have onshore or water events as well to the Rite of Passage program, where we really look to mentor and develop young people living with a disability or living with social disadvantage to find their way in life and really just take that next step forward. But opportunities that they probably would never, ever have access to in in their everyday lives.

28:10 Peter

And a lot of the sailors taking part in this year, they're kind of living proof that you can do what you put your mind to. And of course, you know, we all need role models. We all need we. It's all well and good for someone to say, you can do whatever you like, but when it can be shown that this person is doing that, that message is much more powerful.

28:27 Gareth

Absolutely. And I know I'm obviously skewed in my role with the Making Waves Foundation, but the 15 crew members that we have taking our program yacht club across to Hobart are just unbelievable. 50% living with disability, family members that that live with disability as well, or social disadvantage. And they just they really put their all into it and they never back down. And that's just the most inspiring message we can pass on to young people at home who may be watching the Rolex, Omega Hobart and and ultimately we want them to think, Well, why can't that be me? Why can't I get off the couch and and go and do that? 

And that's essentially what organisations such as the Making Waves Foundation want to do. And we were inspire those regardless of age, regardless of of ability or disability, that there is more that they can do and they just need someone to give them that opportunity.

29:18 Peter

And one of the great things that Gareth is, you know, kind of, it's very inclusive in terms of pretty much any disability has been represented over the boat over the years.

29:26 Gareth

Absolutely, 100%. We're very much inclusive across all abilities and some of our volunteers that are going on to the race this year. We have a person with a vision impairment, hearing impairment, cerebral palsy, amputees. There's no barriers. We just want to give everyone the opportunity and make sure that everyone can believe that they can do this. And the proof is in the pudding. 20, 22 years that we've done it and we've finished every race. So good on the crew for that matter. Iron and resilience.

29:58 Peter

Dare I say there'd be a few crews that have had a little bit more funding than you guys have had that probably can't boast that record.

30:05 Gareth

Absolutely, absolutely. And... ultimately, that's what this all comes down to is, you know, we're we're at the mercy of... the current climate and economy, as much of every other not for profit is. And we very much rely on the generous donations of sponsors... government funding, but just everyday donors. And that's what Monday night's event at Middle Harbour Yacht Club is all about. Just to really ask everyone to dig deep and promote organizations such as the Make-A-Wish Foundation, create more opportunities and put more people out on the water and that we just want to achieve, at the end of the day.

30:41 Peter

You got to sort of (quote unquote), "training camp" this weekend... is it too early to keep a bit of an eye out for the weather? Is that a little bit just too far away?

30:49 Gareth

Yeah, we'll... obviously start having a look into it. And... I mean, ultimately the team needs to get out there. So originally we're going to be... the Cabbage Tree race. We've chosen to rather just do an overnight and really get the team to connect into the last two weeks heading into that race. And our fantastic skipper Jono, he's going to really put the crew through their last paces and make sure that everyone's as comfortable as they can be, especially those first timers that obviously are not sure what to expect.

31:20 Peter

Maybe, dare I say, being uncomfortably comfortable or comfortably uncomfortable, whichever way you want to look at it.

31:26 Gareth

Yeah, absolutely. I don't know if you can put the words "comfort" and...the Rolex of the Hobart race in the same sentence, but... we're obviously trying to provide as much training in preparation for the crew as possible. And we're very fortunate to have the likes of John Whitfeld as our skipper, who will continue to make sure that the team is prepared as they can be for the journey that...

31:48 Peter

We're going around Australia on the Vision Australia Radio network. Just a bit more about Monday night. How can people help out if they can't get there? How can they help out in other ways, perhaps in a sort of virtual online sort of sense?

32:00 Gareth

Absolutely. So it is an invite event, just because we're obviously catering. So we do need to know numbers up front. But if anybody does wish to donate online or support the crew or just see more of what we do on a day to day basis, they can visit our website, which is w-w-w dot making waves - all one word - EDU. They can jump online. They'll obviously see the full story of who the crew are, what they're doing. They can also follow us on social media and they can just jump behind us. There's plenty of donation opportunities. There's plenty of opportunities for corporates to either to get behind us and really back what the team is going to do in this year's race, and we'll we'll obviously accept any support and financial contributions that we can take. 

But yeah, it didn't do... the easiest way to do it, if you jump online and just support us through our journey.

32:53 Peter

All right. We'll put those details up with our show notes. Gareth, good luck on Monday night. And of course, good luck to the crew during the Rolex Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race. What we'd love to do is when you get back in January, I have a bit of a chat about how it all went, because I'm sure there'll be a tale or two to tell.

33:10 Gareth

Absolutely, Peter, and thank you again to yourself and obviously your listeners for giving us this opportunity. And yeah, please, during the race, look out for Making Waves' Kayle - that's k a y l e. We're going to turn some heads while we do phenomenal things for the community. 

Peter

Good luck guys. Amazing. 

Gareth

Thank you Peter. Have a great day.

33:29 Peter

That's how you get there. From the Making Waves Foundation, that Sydney to Hobart, that Rolex Sydney-Hobart Yacht Race. Of course getting underway Boxing Day. And that's one crew will be following and barking for very very strongly. You're in elite company listening to Leisure Link, here on Vision Australia Radio, VA radio, digital radio dot org and through the TuneIn radio app. 

What a great thing it is catching up with our health commentator, David Mitchell. The first week of each month it is that time again. David, welcome. Thanks for your time.

34:18 David

Hello, everyone.

34:19 Peter

Now you're going to talk about blood tests, but kind of looking at the the full picture rather than just, you know, Oh yeah, it's under the limit, then you're okay. Yeah.

34:28 David

This this is really what it's all about. And so many of us, we are... feel unwell, or don't seem to be as well as we want to be. And we trot off the GP and he does some blood tests. He says, Oh, you're okay. That often isn't the case - because to a large extent, medicine doesn't teach you much about when blood levels are low and they don't tell you exactly where you need to be on the scale - and if they are a bit low, then they may have quite significant effects on how will you function or how will you feel, or both. And it's worth having a bit of a chat about that. 

And if we start with something quite simple, like, say, vomiting... now we're all supposed to be Aussies and we're all supposed to be out in the sun between 10 and 3 p.m. every day, and at least the legs and the arms are exposed to get it. But we don't often do that. We wear long trousers. We live with long shirts. It's too cold right through winter in particular. And if it's too hot? We don't go out anyway. So often we find that vitamin D, which is incredibly important because it's not only about brain function, but it's also about how 25,000 different chemical reactions in the body work properly with vitamin D. 

Now, the trouble with vitamin D is that the so-called normal level is different from every state in. As an example, in Tasmania that anything under 100 is low. Anything over over 100 is too high. In Australia it's 150. In Melbourne it's a 180. In Queensland it's 250 to 300. They're all called the normals. So if you front up in South Australia and it's the end of winter or summer where it's too hot to go out and your vitamin D comes in at 60 or 70 or 80, that GP doesn't worry about it until it gets below 50. 

But in fact, for any one of us, our amount that we need will differ from the next person in front of you or behind you in the queue at the doctors. It's the individual variation, so much so that you not only need to look at it from that angle, but also look at probably the best and optional levels is going to be Queensland, where it's up in the 200 to 200 and 50s and whereas Adelaide, the maximum you can make is probably 150. So you're you will below the path. So that's an example. 

So when you go to the dock and you had some blood tests because the doctor and you have agreed that there's, there might be something we better do. A blood test is number one. If he says a normal safe, can you show me and can I have a copy? Secondly, from that one, you look at any of the low scores because it's it's a very often it's the low score that's usually not the high school. And if the low is low normal, then it could well be enough of a reason for you to start taking a supplement of that particular one. And if you do find that this is the case, every time you go to the GP, ask for a copy of your blood test. You're allowed to do that, and in fact ask for some that that were done six months, 12 months, two years ago to see if it is a trend going in the wrong direction, as in downwards. 

So vitamin D is important. B12 is another one, but we need lots of B12 True because it's used in multiple parts of the body, but in particular in the brain to make things like serotonin and melatonin and dopamine. These are those sort of funny sounding names that are becoming more and more important and more often written about. They are the bits that function as to stop us from getting depression, to stop us, to sorry, to help us think more clearly, and interact with people more easily and give us a bit of a boost all at the same time. 

Now running Beach World... the doc has been told, right? Well, below 300 is probably a problem. Low 150, you're probably halfway to Alzheimer's, and if you come in at 400, there's nothing wrong with you. But in fact, you would normally find that for your body to function better, you need to be well above 500 and ending up to 1000 to really function at your best peak. And remember that the basically, unless we're taking a supplement of B12 or a monkey bee. We only get our B12 from red meat, and red meat is expensive. It's not in fish. It's not in chicken, and it's not in vegetables. 

So if we are, if you like red meat deficient, then we should be taking a B12 or a multi B supplement at the same time. And there is good data to say that that a multi b is going to be better than just to B12 by itself because they, they do act as a brotherhood and help help each other function everywhere in the body better. Vitamin C is another one. As we get older, we don't eat an awful lot of fruit. So we don't make we don't take in any vitamin C because we can't make the vitamin C, we can't make the collagen. 

So not only does our face sag, but the skin generally it bruises more easily. And if we get cuts or scratches, it takes seems to take forever. Takes a week or two for even a tiny scratch to heal itself properly. And there are indicators that the you need some vitamin C and taking it as a supplement. Anything from 1000 to 2000 a day is what you need. Take more if you have bruising, or if you do have cuts and scratches, or working on at least a thousand every day. It's part of it because the blood test for vitamin C, no one really knows exactly what is the worst and what is the best level. So it's better. Just use your body and the instructions to to go for it. 

And along the same sort of lines is is iron and anemia. Now iron is needed to make the haemoglobin. The haemoglobin is the carrier of oxygen and other molecules through the bloodstream inside the red blood cells, and is part of the making of the red blood cells. Again we we get mainly iron from red meat and to some extent from some leafy green veggies, but not an awful lot. So again, if you go to the doc and you find that your own levels are a bit low, and that's that common thing, the doc will say, Oh, there's nothing wrong, you're only a bit low, don't worry about it is almost always, Change your diet or take some iron. 

If the red blood cells happen to be a little small tiny ones, then definitely you need some iron. And definitely you need a test. Is there something happening in your bowel? You need to do a bowel test just in case it's stomach pain. Because or because of the dietary factors that you need to do it. Or if the red blood cells are big but very pale, then you need some vitamin B12 and sometimes you may need both worthwhile. How about cramps? There were lots of us. As we get older, we get cramps, particularly night cramps. 

And people always say, Oh, magnesium is the answer. Well, the problem with that is that no one in the world has any clue what the amount of magnesium we need is. There's no one been able to come up with a reliable estimation of where it should be. So again you usually have to go by the symptoms. And if you are getting... some leg cramps or cramps in the hands or somewhere, you can check out by the GP then taking some magnesium is a good thing. If it's not working, then seriously consider getting some [?egg fossil socks] which make the magnesium work better. 

So you get that two factors. One is that there's not enough magnesium in your system. You take magnesium that even if you take it and it's not working, it's probably because there is something in the in the enzymes and genes in you that's stopping it from working. So now [?Fossil Socks] helps an awful lot.

42:24 Peter

But we might we might leave it there for today.

42:27 David

Yeah, sure.

42:28 Peter

I'm sensing there's more deficiencies that we should be looking at. So we might come back to that perhaps... in the new year.

42:36 David

Look, easily. There's tons of them. The ones we've spoken about are the more are very common and they're easily fixed or easily noticed. So what you're looking for is... you're looking to be in the higher levels or higher levels, not low normal levels.

42:51 Peter

David, you put us in a higher level every time we listen to you. Thank you so, so much for not just this year, but for all the years you've done. I was having a bit of a chat to you off air and I jokingly said, Pam said, you're back next year. So that was good enough for us. But you come back and you'll come back, you know, won't you?

43:07 David

Yes, sir. She Who Must Be Obeyed. Yes, yes. She has spoken, David.

43:12 Peter

Enjoy the break. And thanks again for all you do.

43:14 David

Merry Christmas to everyone. And thank you, Peter, for tolerating me and for asking me 20 odd years ago to to join your group.

43:22 Peter

A marriage made in heaven.

43:23 David

Thanks, Peter. Bye, everyone.

43:25 Peter

David Mitchell there. Health commentator. I think it's fair to say he, David, is the person that we get most correspondence about. So I think that makes him the most popular. Thank you, Polly. As always, I'll put the kettle on. Very reliable as indeed is our guest, Belinda Hillyard from Brew by Belinda - The Brew That Is True. 97A Old Port Road, Queenstown. Belinda, hello.

44:05 Belinda

Hello, Peter. How are you? 

44:06 Peter

I'm very well. Happy birthday. In fact, it's happy birthday twice, isn't it?

44:10 Belinda

It is? Yes. I had a personal birthday. And then our business, my business turned nine - this, yeah, yeah, this December. So pretty thrilled with that.

44:22 Peter

Well, congratulations. Belinda, right now you're going to maybe show us your naughty side, I think today, aren't you? You're going to give us something a little bit too dirty or a bit sort of cheeky that we might be able to incorporate into our Christmas or something over the holidays.

44:36 Belinda

That's right. I thought we could sort of talk about how you can have fun with tea to make things like icy poles, ice cream, even mocktails and cocktails. So yeah, basically using tea in cold brew ways or refreshing keeping cool in summer ways for the festive season. 

44:57 Peter

All right. Well, we talked about cold treats. I think probably this time last year, we talked about brewing up a tea and obviously putting it in the fridge and sipping it throughout the day. What other ideas can you come up with?

45:07 S3

Well, we've had a lot of fun over the years... using tea in icy poles. It's so simple, it really is as simple as picking a tea that you, that's kind of got a fair bit of flavour. So we use our fruit tisanes. We have a couple of tisanes that feature fruit like lime, and another one that features blood orange mixed with other ingredients, but that sort of bring quite a punchy flavor to things. So choosing, like a tea or tisane with quite a bit of flavour that you think would translate well into an icy pole situation, and all you simply do is brew the tea as you normally would, but with a little bit more strength. 

So sort of adding, you know, maybe twice as much of the loose leaf tea to water as you normally would. And you can hop, brew this and then let it cool down or you. Yeah, I probably would hot brew it actually, because that'll bring out more kind of pronounced flavor. So hot brewing the tea double the strength letting that cool down. And then you simply just need some icicle or popsicle kind of molds that are sort of readily available in various places. And you simply pour the tea into those molds, you can add things like we always add, you know, some fruits. So you could add some little slices of strawberry or some little wheels of sliced lime or something like that... even a little bit of mint. 

You can sweeten the tea if you wish, using, you know... a natural kind of sweetener... or a sugar syrup or a little bit of fruit juice or something like that, if you like. But... a lot of tea blends just have a lot of nice, healthy flavour as they are. And you simply pour it into the popsicle mold with any little additions like herbs and fruits that you like, and pop them in the freezer. And they, you know, will freeze. And then they look absolutely beautiful, lots of color. And yeah, they're a healthy, you know, just different alternative to, you know, your normal sugary, icy poles.

47:24 Peter

Oh, definitely. And obviously a lot more healthy. So I guess in a sense it's like, uh, you know, you make them to taste, but you give us some kind of ideas of the sort of, um, flavors that you can go for.

47:35 Belinda

Yeah, I think, you know, you can sort of play. And this is what I love about, you know, tea and all the different ingredients. When you blend things together, you know, there's lots of different ways that you can play. It's all just experimentation, trying different things. But yeah, just bring, you know, more. Just extend the whole idea of tea into other areas.

47:57 Peter

Yeah, they sound delicious. I'd imagine they'll probably go very quickly anyway, but they'd probably keep for a while. Once they're frozen, you could probably keep them in the freezer for a for a little while.

48:06 Belinda

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. My kids love them. Yeah. You can keep them for a while. Like a normal icy cold. 

48:14 S2

Actually, it's a great idea, as you say, for kids, but, I mean, it's kind of, it doesn't matter what age you are. It's the sort of thing that could be very, very appealing if you want to take on these very hot days. And I think we're in for a pretty hot summer. If the forecast arrived, the sort of thing that, you know, sometimes it is just nice to drink something cold that just calls you internally as well as externally.

48:34 Belinda

Yeah. And, you know, just a great way to sort of avoid really sugary, yeah, mass produced things and makes, you know, make something of your own that. Yeah. Is either like an ice block or, as you say, just a cold, refreshing cup of tea is just a really nice alternative to water. It just makes, you know, gets your cups of water in for the day because you're still hydrating with the water base, but it just makes you know, water so much more exciting and tasty.

49:03 Peter

How to make water exciting. I mean, you could use green tea or even black tea if you wanted to, but probably that's probably. I know I'm trying to imagine an icy pole with green tea or particularly black tea. I'm not. I love tea, but I'm not sure that's that appealing.

49:18 Belinda

No, I'm kind of thinking like a black tea. A nice sort of light black tea with some, like, passionfruit pulp mixed in through. That would be delicious. Yeah, green tea can be a little bit sort of more savory. So, you know, thinking about how you could use fruit or some kind of something that'll bring a little bit of sweetness to balance that out. But yeah, I think the possibilities are endless.

49:45 Peter

Well, I think like a lot of the things that we talked about over the time with you, it's sort of... limited only by your imagination and also obviously by your taste. And I think the idea of adding a little bit of a little bit of fruit to it as well is kind of cool as well, because that kind of might just enhance the flavor as well. So I guess the important thing is, or an important thing is to maybe make the tea a bit stronger than would otherwise be the case if you were just drinking it hot.

50:10 Belinda

Yeah, absolutely. I think just giving that, you know, just extra edge of... flavour in that whole scenario is, you know, is going to be best... now, blender.

50:20 Peter

I've got a good memory. I remember when we spoke to you in the very, very early days, you talked about particularly your grandparents drinking tea, and that kind of got you interested in it when you were just a little girl. And you also touched on a few months ago about a very special birthday in your family on Christmas Day.

50:36 Belinda

That's right. My Nana Novela is turning 100 on Christmas Day this year.

50:42 Peter

That's fantastic.

50:43 Belinda

So we have a wonderful celebration planned, but I do truly believe that it's her consistent tea drinking that's got her to this ripe old age. That's what I'm sticking to anyway.

50:55 Peter

Oh, no. Look, I the evidence is there to prove it. What is there, Nana? Nana got a favorite tea.

51:02 Belinda

Oh, look, Nana... is pretty particular about her brew. She likes a tea bag. She likes a nice, strong cup of, like, a Dilmah or a Lipton. She's very set with that. It's just been her way of doing things. She has a little bit of sugar. Not too much, not too little. It's got to be right. And I think she has about five cups a day.

51:21 Peter

Very. Really?

51:23 Belinda

Yeah. Over the day. Very set times. Often following a meal. And then my dad is kind of in a very similar routine. And you can see where I get it all from and why we just drink so much tea.

51:33 Peter

All right, well, it's healthy. It's certainly a good thing to be doing. And I think, as I've said to you in the past, we've learnt from the way you operate that you're very, very ethical and environmentally friendly with the sort of stuff that you do. So it's good for the planet as well. But if people want to come and see you between now and Christmas, you probably have a bit of a break over the Christmas New Year period. But if people want to come and see you, or dare I say it, there might even be a little... idea for a Christmas gift that you can give to someone. Where can we find you? 

52:02 Belinda

So you can find me at my studio at 97A Old Port Road in Queenstown will be open sort of right up to Christmas. Then we'll be taking a bit of a break in Jan too. Or you can contact me via my website or email, but,... WW Brew by Belinda dot com dot AU... or over the phone. Always happy to chat. 0419 839 702.

52:26 Peter

Now we've had two wonderful years with you. I've really enjoyed it. I know our listeners have as well. I've got lots of things I'd like to ask you about see, in the future. So... will you come back next year? We'll give you January off as well. Close the shop and the radio segment. But we'd love to have you back in February.

52:42 Belinda

I'd love to come back, Peter. Thank you.

52:45 Peter

It's a deal. All right. Linda. Merry Christmas and our big, special. Lots of love and good wishes to none and all. That's a tremendous achievement. Enjoy the day. We'll raise the pinky to Nana Nora, I think. Where are we on the Christmas Day?

52:57 Belinda

Absolutely. Thank you so much, Peter. And Merry Christmas to all the listeners and to yourself and your family.

53:03 Peter

Beinda Hillyer there from Brew by Belinda, the brew that is true - 97A Old Port Road at Queenstown. 

We've all heard plenty about Black Friday. Now Black Friday with a bit of a difference to chat to us about it. We've got from Guide Dogs New South Wales, it's Abby Jayasuriyah - Abby, lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time. 

53:27 Abby

You too. Thanks so much for having me.

53:28 Peter

Just about this event. It's a little bit different, but a great message behind it.

53:32 Abby

That's right. So Guide Dogs NSW Act held a pop-up store to celebrate Black Friday, and it was open from Thursday the 28th to the Saturday of that week. And it was a shop with a difference. So the idea was to show the sighted community what it's like to shop online if you have low vision or are blind. So we it was it was quite a fun concept. We had a shop in Paddington in the city, and we had these shelves full of boxes and you couldn't see what was in the boxes, but they all had an item description on them, and we purposely ensured that these item descriptions were not very good. 

So some examples were worksheet or patterned dress or cool hat. So like when you're shopping online and you can't see what you're getting, people really didn't know what to expect and were in for a bit of a surprise.

54:30 Peter

Of course, for people with sight, or when you shop online, you can kind of see the products that they might not necessarily fit, but you can kind of see it and get a picture in your mind, or more than in your mind, actually in your eyes as to what it is. But could you say for a person who might be blind or have low vision, that isn't the case?

54:44 Abby

That's right. And I don't know if I've ever come across a shopping website with... alt text, little text descriptions on the images that the screen reader will read out. There are several websites or companies that do good item descriptions, but sometimes there are still little details that are left out. 

55:01 Peter

Well, I guess this is the purpose of the message, if you like, is to kind of... you know, be mindful of people who might not be able to see what's actually on, on the website.

55:08 Abby

That's right. So we had a whole experience, for people to go through. So they would choose their box, and they would take that to the counter and then they would receive. Something similar to like an Australian Post satchel. And then they'd go over to... the second section of the shop where they get to open it. And there was a bit of a media wall. So they could kind of have that Wow or surprise moment when they saw what they got. And then the third part of the experience was to actually learn what a good item description is and to, you know, hear what a screen reader sounds like and just have that education piece for people to take away.

55:42 Peter

As far as kind of gravitates to the message goes, you know, you're the perfect person - because will you are a person to live with a vision impairment and you use the technology, in fact, you specialise in this area.

55:53 Abby

That's right. Yeah. So I do the assistive technology training at Guide Dogs. So mainly focusing on screen reader and Braille training.

56:00 Peter

How long have you been in that role?

56:02 Abby

Oh, probably about almost four years... three and three quarters of of a year, to be exact.

56:07 Peter

Yeah. So what do you think of the situation as far as accessibility goes? I mean, those of us that kind of live where they'd have been banging on about it for years and years. It's kind of a... it's a long game that we're playing, isn't it.

56:19 Abby

That's right. Yeah. There's... lots of people that self advocate to companies and that's pretty much what I'd encourage everyone to keep doing. There was a website that I used to shop at that had the colour pickers were not accessible, so I would have to... so I have retinitis pigmentosa and I have some functional vision, so I'd have to turn my screen reader off and then tap on one of the, I could see the little circles, even though I couldn't see the colours, and then I'd have to get the screen reader back on to read me the colour. So, I mean, it was doable for me, but it was quite a process and someone with no vision wouldn't be able to do it at all. It wasn't, was not accessible. So... I did provide feedback to that company probably about 18 months ago. 

And I discovered during this Black Friday that they've finally solved the issue. So things are often not accessible. But I encourage people to to let companies know because, you know, sometimes they just don't know what they don't know. But hopefully with this pop-up shop, we've kind of created some more awareness around that so that marketing people and companies can take a bit more notice.

57:24 Peter

Let's go and ask you about that, because I don't think people are intentionally going out of their way to be difficult or to be inaccessible. It's just the lack of awareness.

57:31 Abby

That's right. But sometimes it can feel a bit personal, yeah. And, you know, we work hard for our money. And, you know, sometimes some of us are often, it's hard to find high paying jobs because, you know, there's other things in the workplace that aren't accessible. So sometimes we are limited in... the roles that we can do. And that means that, you know, we really do need to look for a bargain or we need to, you know, hone in on those sales that are going on, especially around Black Friday, Boxing Day and all those other nice days that we get. 

But it can be tricky because even things like... when you receive a marketing email, I found often in the past and it is changing now, but the code for the actual discount is often on your image, so it's impossible to get with a screen reader unless you can, you know, take a... screenshot and try and get the text recognised off that.

58:18 Peter

And with respect, that's all good and well and good for you, because you're working in this area and you're probably a bit more experienced, a bit more versed in this area. But for someone who might just kind of use technology sort of ad hoc or just... you know, just to sort of get through day by day, you know, maybe we don't have that kind of expertise. And that's a, you know, a big ask or a tedious ask. And sometimes it's easier to sort of say, Well, I'm not going to bother.

58:42 Abby

That's right, I totally agree. Where there are some people that don't have the skills and there are other people that may be able to do it, but they just have technology fatigue. And it seems like you're jumping through hoops just to get to this sale. And, you know, save $15 here and there. And, you know, when all that adds up throughout the year, it's a lot of money, but it is hard to, you know, to do that and to spend your time. And even then you might still be left in the lurch after after everything if you buy a product and you receive it and it was totally not like what you expected, that whole experience was a waste of time.

59:12 Peter

And of course, the irony of the whole situation is that technology is moving so quickly, in a sense, making a lot of things much more accessible that, you know, sometimes, you know, things that could be made more accessible aren't. So it's kind of a double-edged sword.

59:25 Abby

Yes, that's exactly right. Yes. Especially with all the Artificial Intelligence.

59:29 Peter

Yeah, yeah. And what sort of technology do you use? You talked about screen readers. So what do you use? 

59:34 S11

Yeah. So the screen readers are a big one. I use Windows for work and Mac and Apple products at home, so I rely a lot on VoiceOver on my phone for my online shopping. I've also been using Be My Eyes a lot. So there is a feature where if you're on a web browser, you can share the website to Be My Eyes, which is the app, and then you can in the share screen, there's an option that says describe with Be My Eyes. And basically the AI or artificial intelligence feature of the app is able to look at the website and then give you a description, a very detailed description, which is quite good. And then you're able to ask follow up questions. 

So as an example, I'll often share pictures or websites with clothing that have a pattern that is described as multicolor. So it might be a floral, it might be a check or a geographic pattern. And you just have no idea what what that could be sometimes. So asking be my eye to really describe both the colors and even the shades so you know you can. Is it pastel? Which means it's a bit more kind of lighter and the colors may blend in a bit more? Is it is it vibrant? Is it fluro? It's just good to to get that detail. But it does take time, you know, to get all those descriptions. It's like doing a whole lot of market research to buy one shirt. But I do enjoy shopping, so I kind of like the Chase.

1:00:50 Peter

I wanted to take you on as my fashion consultant too, Abby. 

1:00:54 Abby

I think I would love to do that.

1:00:54 Peter

You're almost talking another language. But anyway, people are, the way I dress, probably know exactly what I mean. I mean, what about, on a serious note, the excellent coverage? We were having a quick chat before coming to air. The excellent coverage that the media gave you, I mean, that's also very, very important. You conduct yourself really, really well. I'm not just saying that because I'm talking to you, but you conduct yourself really, really well. But it's important that the mainstream media kind of help spread the word or share the information about the message.

1:01:21 Abby

That's right. We're so grateful to all the reporters and the journalists to who snapped this up. And, you know, spread the word. There was national coverage. There was coverage on places that kind of promote events in Sydney to get more of a crowd in on the Saturday, and it was just really lovely to see how important people thought this was. And all the research that the journalists and reporters had done prior to these kind of broadcasts as well, to upskill themselves on the language and the technicalities of making things accessible. It was really amazing to see.

1:01:53 Peter

The sort of things can be so important, can't they, just to kind of get the sort of true message across.

1:01:58 Abby

That's right. Yes, definitely.

1:01:59 Peter

Abbie, well done. Great to talk to you. Congratulations on the initiative. Do you know whose idea it was, way back when it started?

1:02:05 Abby

I believe it was our campaigns manager, Sarah Watts at Guide Dogs. It may have had something a little bit to do with me. They were doing some...

1:02:13 Peter

You're being modest.

1:02:14 Abby

May have. May have. I'm not entirely sure. Someone did tell me. It's... spawned from one of the comments I had about showing people what it would be like to shop online with just an item description, and I think they took the idea quite literally and did this shop. So it was... really exciting. 

1:02:30 Peter

Yeah, it was. The great thing about a program like this, and I'm sure many others is that, you know, we can kind of highlight those things, but then, you know, someone's got to kind of action a new and Guide Dogs New South Wales and ACT have done that. And that's really, really important.

1:02:42 Abby

Yes, definitely.

1:02:43 Peter

Thank you Abby, great to talk to you. I'm sure we'll speak in the future - but well done to all those involved.

1:02:47 Abby

Thank you so much and thanks for having me. 

1:02:49 Peter

And I hope you bought something nice.

1:02:50 Abby

I did actually, I got lucky.

1:02:51 Peter

That's Abby Jayasuriya there, who works in the area of technology, assistive technology at Guide Dogs New South Wales and ACT - just about their pop-up event of Black Friday, raising wonderful awareness about accessibility, particularly in the area of shopping.

1:03:08 ID

On the Vision Australia Network through your favourite podcast service, on 1197 AM in Adelaide, you're listening to Leisure Link.

1:03:18 Peter

Let's talk about cyber safety and in particular as far as the metaverse goes. Let's speak about it with the founder for Safe on Social, Kirra Prendergast. Kirra, thanks so much for your time and welcome.

1:03:31 S10 Kirra. 

Pleasure. Thanks for having me.

1:03:33 Peter

Now, there's been some recent information that suggests that a number of parents don't know exactly what their kids are up to, and obviously that's a concerning factor.

1:03:42 Kirra

That's correct. They've got a pretty good grasp, but not a grasp of the newer kind of technology that they could be using, that's for sure.

1:03:49 Peter

So you're talking about the metaverse. So what is the metaverse? To maybe those of us a bit older than 21.

1:03:56 Kirra

So the metaverse is like a next version of the internet. So it's an immersive, interconnected like interconnected space where you would use VR goggles or maybe a suit and be able to feel and experience worlds in 3D. So it is like in a very, very simple terms, it's like an internet within the internet. So you can access that through virtual reality is what it is. There are a lot of games that are headed that way.

1:04:25 Peter

And I guess in terms of experience, if you want to call it that, this is kind of next level.

1:04:30 Kirra

Yeah it is. It's been around for a little while now. There is a lot of... gaming. That is usually what we would consider metaverse. But when I'm explaining to young people what the metaverse is, I often use the analogy of going to SeaWorld or something. And if you were to look at an internet version of SeaWorld, you'd see photos and videos of people swimming with dolphins. But in a metaverse version of SeaWorld, it'd be 3D and you would feel what it was like to swim with the dolphins.

1:04:57 Peter

And I guess we can let our imagination think about what this could lead to, in terms of bad things.

1:05:03 Kirra

Yes, unfortunately, you know, with new technology company risks. And we need to mitigate those risks and try and get ahead of them where possible.

1:05:11 Peter

Are there some ground rules, or are there some kind of points where we can think, Well, let's put these things in place? I mean, I guess awareness of both parent and child is a start. 

1:05:22 Kirra

Yes. That in, you know, an extension to what's been put in place in the last week in Australia with the social media that, you know, developing policies around circumstance, kind of children's safety is really, really important. Extending that into the metaverse, collaborating with organisations to create really accessible resources and education for people to be able to understand this world better because it just doesn't affect parents, like it affects grandparents, and to give them really exciting stuff that can happen in the metaverse and we don't want to miss out on that innovative technology that can be used to solve real world problems and will probably be used in the workplace by the time the current primary school student is in the workplace. 

So, you know, we need to start looking at what this is going to look like in a few years time. Mitigate the risk by educating now.

1:06:13 Peter

That's a great point, isn't it, about the workforce in, you know, not so long a period of time. It kind of will be the... norm rather than a little bit "out there" as far as the advanced technology goes. 

1:06:23 Kirra

Well that's right. Well there's already metaverses like there's one called Decentraland, for example. You can go onto that metaverse, you can buy a virtual block of land. If you're an architect, you could design a house or build it rendered on that virtual block of land for the people that are building it could walk through it virtually and see exactly where it's going to be or where they're going to create their garden or put their pool. You know, there's some really great stuff that can happen. We just need to mitigate the risk. And that's what the new standard framework is there.

1:06:53 Peter

So the the legislation in the last week or so that's been passed kind of puts the onus on on the corporates if you like. And you know, it's been said that, you know, kids or parents that are impacted, you know, they're not going to go to court or anything like that. Is that the best way to handle this?

1:07:10 Kirra

Yeah, I think it's about time we pushed back on big tech. And, you know, to be honest, it's been a big conversation started. The best thing about the ban has been the amount of conversations that have started about this. Like I'm being flooded with people wanting to know How does this work and How does this work and What's this and What's this? And it hasn't happened in the history of my career, and we are literally now and I've done in the last week interviews with international media, because Australia is making people step up and actually take notice of, Oh, hang on a minute, this can be done, we can push back on them. And if we all do, what kind of change is that going to create to keep our kids safe in the future?

1:07:52 Peter

Often with things like this, when I'm talking or you're talking about big tech, I guess when we're talking about corporates in general, you know, if one company makes their website more accessible, hopefully it's a good lead for others, you know, for people to say disabilities or if one building is more accessible than another, that's good for other people building in the future to sort of follow that suit. Is there a corporate that's going to be able to kind of lead the way to say this is the right thing? I mean, there seems to be a lot of push back from the big tech at the moment. Is someone going to kind of say, okay, we kind of know what's going on here, or we kind of understand that this is going to be a good thing if we all get on board. Is it something that can kind of lead the way in that area?

1:08:32 Kirra

Oh, look, I'm hoping so. If corporate responsibility really they've been, you know, pilfering billions and billions out of people's personal information for a very long time. Everything from tracking eye movements and behavioral challenges challenger to being able to you know, they've been very open that they can see when someone's anxious or they can see when someone's depressed because of the way they're interacting online. And they've been trading on that. And we need to get a bit more human about this. 

And whilst, you know, there's a whole heap of good stuff that can happen from social media, the best possible thing that we could do right now is exactly what the Albanese government tried to do, which literally helped parents out by putting down a little, drawing a line in the sand and say, enough of this. If our kids under the age of 16 that haven't got the ability to self-regulate, in a lot of cases, they're making big mistakes that can impact the rest of their lives with photos and comments and things that are floating around out there with not much chance of being able to get them back. 

You know, there's a whole heap behind it, but there's also some really, really, really good things that can happen from social media. So it's a really fine line, Peter. We really need to mitigate that risk. And as I said, throwing down the gauntlet and saying 16 plus and the whole world watching, I think that will change. And some of them want to change. I've had conversations with the biggest adult entertainment site in the world, and have the search term for roadblocks completely removed from their platform, simply because I picked up the phone and I asked them, you know, it's not difficult. It gets no one talking about it and no one really directly asking them. And I think the way that the government's gone. Yeah, you know what? No more of it will actually make a significant change.

1:10:25 Peter

I guess one positive about that, it's been very much bipartisan as well, which has got to be a good thing too.

1:10:30 Kirra

That's right. It's very rare too, very rare.

1:10:33 Peter

And the 12 month kind of grace is that is that fair enough, do you think?

1:10:38 Kirra

Look, personally, I think it'll probably take a bit longer. There's a lot to do. We've got to define a whole lot of things like, you know, there's a whole heap of different games out there that call themselves games when they really should be called social media. You know, and this is only across the first, like the six major platforms for now, like Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. You know, those ones, big main ones are the ones that the government laid down the law here. There's already people saying, well, why isn't it because of adult entertainment that can be blocked? Why is it the other games being blocked? 

You know, so there's a lot of questions and I think it's going to take probably a little bit longer than 12 months to work through all of that. And at the same time, we absolutely cannot afford to drop the ball as carrot and think that the government is going to take care of it for us, because we need to be really well educated about what our kids are using and understand that it's not banning the internet, but if they do go into dark, darker places online that we've created, that they fight to keep take up so that they know they can speak up without being shamed, without being judged about things that they've done or they're being online is really, really important.

1:11:55 Peter

Kira, I know you're really busy, but you've been working this area for nearly 30 years. I mean, that was almost before the internet was invented.

1:12:02 Kirra

It was... well, 34, actually. I started my career in tech in 1991, the year before we had the internet proper everywhere. It was mainly just for academia back then. So I've literally grown up with the internet in this country. My son called it the internet so yeah, I'm probably the world's oldest digital native. But yeah, there we go. Been around, seen it all before seeing the repeat pattern. At the end of the day, we see it all. Repeat, repeat, repeat. So we're seeing the same issues now coming through that we had with like first of all with the internet. Then it was Smartphones and the social media. Then it was AI, and AI was about the metaverse. 

If I could roll a very similar thing coming up over and over and over and over and over again and leisurely make significant change. Nothing is going to change that. You know why I'm supportive of the standard and very supportive of the ban.

1:12:55 Peter

I know you're very busy. If there's if there's one place that people can go to kind of get a bit more information and kind of drill down from there, what would you suggest?

1:13:04 Kirra

Like on social of course. Okay, there's a lot of... information that we share, in Australia that we're very lucky to have organisations like ACCE, A Centre to Counter Child Exploitation, and the resources that they put out are very, very good. But, you know, if a school puts on a cyber safety talk, no matter who it is, go, you know, it's a really important thing to do. Even if you don't have a child at that school, most of the time they're completely fine with members of the community turning up. It's really important to get educated.

1:13:37 Peter

We'll put those details up with our show notes. Kirra, I know you're really busy. You've got plenty of talking to do to many other people. We appreciate you spending a bit of time with us.

1:13:46 Kirra

Great. Thank you for having me.

1:13:48 Peter

That's Kirra Prendergast, the founder for Safe on Social. We'll put those details up in our show notes, but certainly very thought-provoking. And I've learnt a lot in ten minutes.

1:13:58 Natalie

Hi. My name is Natalie Reid from Equality Lawyers and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

1:14:09 MUSIC

Listen, you better get a real good one...

1:14:13 Peter

[?Winston Cole] for next year to be named the Accessible Year of Travel. Let's chat about it with Fiona Donaldson, who's a travel specialist working for supported travel experience. Fiona, lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time. 

1:14:27 Fiona

Thank you so much for having me.

1:14:28 S2

Now you've got some form in this area. You were involved with an important year last year in Queensland.

1:14:33 Fiona

Yes I was. So last year was Queensland's turn to be Accessible... Year of Accessible Tourism and Travel. So I'm actually a wheelchair user myself. I have been since the age of...19, and I've had 30 years or so in the travel industry, so it all goes quite hand in hand.

1:14:51 Peter

It's not an easy thing to do. I mean, to make it accessible. Is it kind of more the will rather than the money that's needed?

1:14:57 Fiona

I think it's a little bit of both, Peter, to be totally honest with you... I mean, look, it's... not easy as such for sometimes, I mean, some tourism companies or businesses, if they look around closely, there's probably only minor adjustments that, you know, might need to be made to, to make it more accessible as such. But accessibility is not just about putting in ramps and accessible toilets. It's also about training their staff to be disability aware as well.

1:15:25 Peter

Well, that's kind of in your name, isn't it? Because it is all about an experience. I mean, yes, we'd like to go somewhere, but when we're there, we like to do stuff or make it feel like it's a special time.

1:15:35 Fiona

Absolutely. I mean, you probably know yourself if you go away, whether it be overseas or domestically within Australia. Once you get there, you want to actually explore and... you know, be involved in... the community there as well. So, you know, we look for things like accessible tours and you'll find a lot of the time, unfortunately it's not an option due to mainly the transportation or the mode of transportation. So, you know, if you want to do a day tour, if there's a minibus, you know that you've got to get on board. 

And fortunately, people with disability... unfortunately can't do that because, you know, they prefer or they can only stay in their chair to travel in the back of an accessible van. And this is, you know, 99% of the time, not an option for us.

1:16:19 Peter

You talked about last year in Queensland, and I'd say you're sort of calling upon the federal government to get involved. I guess it's got to be a kind of whole of governments plural approach. And I'm talking federal, state and local as well.

1:16:31 Fiona

Yeah, absolutely. So at the moment, I believe that each state and territory are actually working to their own plans. So what we're calling upon is a national framework which provide a consistent approach to accessibility across the country. It makes you know, easier for tourism businesses to understand and implement accessibility best practices. But it also raises awareness, you know, as a national focus to not only people with disabilities here, but also overseas. So it makes really good economic sense as well.

1:17:01 Peter

Now you work in this area, obviously. Do you think that the companies providing the experience or providing the tourism, they're very open minded about being more accessible, being more inclusive?

1:17:12 S14 Fiona

They are turning that way. I mean, even probably five years ago, you know, it wasn't that great. But the awareness and the attraction that is... building in the accessible tourism and travel space is it's really come a long way. So I took a small hiatus out of the travel industry back in 2020 through to 23, um, due to Covid. Yeah. And, you know, just recently coming back into this space, I can see a difference. And there's a lot more enthusiasm. And, you know, from tourism operators in particular and wanting to to make their products accessible as well.

1:17:46 Peter

I mean, everyone's allowed to make a dollar. In fact, if it wasn't for that, you probably wouldn't do it or you know, you wouldn't be able to employ people, etc. so there's no sin in that. But I guess it's also, you know, people getting value for the money that they're spending.

1:17:58 Fiona

Yeah, definitely value for money. And... just, you know, taking that time out, looking forward to a holiday and just knowing that it's going to, to be stress-free. And, you know, they don't need to worry about getting to a hotel and, you know, hoping that it's going to be fully accessible for them or they're going to, you know, they can book a tour once they arrive and, and they can, you know, explore their surroundings. But yeah, we really, we really need this to happen.

1:18:22 Peter

Yeah. Fiona, I've been told reliably that you've got a very good eye for detail. I guess that's important to get someone like you on board where it is. They might think, Oh yeah, that's successful. There's a ramp there that that ticked that box. It's not that simple. And, you know, getting people with your kind of expertise, background, life experience, lived experience is important too.

1:18:41 Fiona

It's very important. I mean, you know, when I, you know, converse with clients, I find out their abilities, what they can do and their requirements as well. So say, for example, if they they need to have a hoist to be able to say get into bed or to, to get from their bed to their shower chair, etc., we need to make sure that there's actually a certain amount of clearance under the hotel rooms bed to make sure that the hoist wheels can go under and the hoist can be used safely. 

So these are things that, you know, when I look at accommodation for clients of mine, I'll actually email or call the hotel and get them to measure spaces under the bed. I'll also get them to measure widths of doorways, etc., all based on the dimensions of the client's chair or their just their abilities in general.

1:19:29 Peter

I guess if you can kind of set the agenda or set down the template, then next time someone rings, say, Yeah, we've got that. So they're... well versed in that area.

1:19:40 Fiona

Yeah. Well that's right. I mean, you know, people will say, you know, Where's the... best place to go overseas? I haven't travelled overseas before. It's the first time travelling in my chair or with a disability. Where do you suggest? And a lot of the time, we do look back at some of the countries or the, sorry, the cities that have hosted the Olympics and the Paralympics, because you'll find that... they are one of the more accessible places to travel to. 

1:20:03 Peter

Yeah. I mean, from all I gather, I think London was sort of very much at the pointy end of the plane, if I can put it that way. As far as that being the case after 2012 or, you know, leading into 2012 as well.

1:20:14 Fiona

Yeah, absolutely. London, I mean, I've travelled to London prior to that when I was in my chair as well. And it wasn't I wouldn't say, um, great, but it wasn't too bad. I mean, they had definitely a lot of the places had tried to make an effort to make, you know, places more accessible for everybody.

1:20:30 Peter

Now, obviously, I mean, South Australia is always a bit of state rivalry, but it's Queensland pretty well set up. I mean, people may be wanting to get away. I'm not sure whether Christmas and New Year is a good time in terms of the humidity, but maybe middle of next year when we're trying to escape the winter and do we go around Australia? So maybe people listening in Victoria as well. Queensland's pretty well set up.

1:20:50 Fiona

Yeah, Queensland's a lot. They've actually come, you know, quite a long way, Queensland's Year of Accessible Tourism. Last year there was a government investment of $12 million which improved over 200 businesses. 200 residents came on board and wanted to make their businesses obviously more accessible and inclusive. So, yes, I mean, if you... think of just 200 businesses in Queensland and you look at the rest of Australia, how amazing would that be?

1:21:17 Peter

For sure. What about your call to the federal government? Any response at this stage? I know it was kind of in conjunction with International Day for People with Disabilities, December 3rd. So, you know, we can't expect them to... well, maybe we can't expect them to respond quickly, but any news there?

1:21:31 Fiona

Not that I'm aware of, unfortunately. No.

1:21:33 Peter

Well, I guess, you know, also... it's maybe a, the old... water dripping on a stone thing, it's probably going to take a little bit of time. But, you know, one business changes at a time. Progress is made.

1:21:46 Fiona

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's the old saying, I mean, once you raise awareness and I talk to people like yourself, people can get out there and, you know, even it's just raising awareness. As far as social media goes, if your listeners go to an accessible destination and promote businesses there, that eventually, yeah, they've made an effort and they've they've increased their accessibility. That's a great thing as well. So... but yeah, I mean, it's all about improving overall accessibility. So everyone with a disability, whether it be, you know, physical or sensory impairment or anything like that. So we just need to to be inclusive for all.

1:22:24 Peter

Win-win. How can we find out more about you and what you do, Fiona?

1:22:27 Fiona

Oh. Thank you. So as you mentioned, I work for Supported Travel Experiences. Our website, I can give that to you. Supported travel dot com dot AU.

1:22:41 Peter

I love that x at the end for experience. It's very cool. I like things like that. They're very, very amusing. Fiona, great to talk to you. It's lovely to meet you. Congratulations on your efforts last year. And, well, here's hoping that the federal government listens. They've got much on their plate anyway, so I'm sure they'll be in touch very, very soon. Maybe after this interview.

1:22:59 Fiona

Thank you so much for having me.

1:23:00 S2

All right. That's Fiona Donaldson, who's a travel expert working for Supported Travel X or Supported Travel Experience. And we'll put all those information up in our show notes. 

Very sad to hear the news during the week of the passing of Ted [?SAR]. Ted, a wonderful volunteer here at Vision Australia Radio and RPA. Back in the day we used to cross paths. Ted used to panel for the Australian as we came in for the Leisure Link. So very astute as far as computers go. And his lovely wife, who was a mad Woodville-west Torrens supporter like Vicki Cousins. So rest in peace Ted [?SAR], a life well lived and certainly a wonderful, wonderful contribution to Vision Australia Radio. Vale, Ted [?SAR]. 

A couple of quotes before we go. Marian has sent one through - Marian says... Discipline is doing what you know is good for you, even when you don't feel like doing it. Which is kind of very true, isn't it? And not so much a quote... but, [?Jenda], the best taxi driver in the world, has sent through his fun fact. Or in fact, he told me during the week, face to face in the car, he said, we talked about Black Friday early with Abbey during Black Friday and Cyber Monday. The average Australian, when they went through the shopping cart at the checkout virtually, their bill was $199.12, up from 160 last year. So thanks for your fun fact.

Four birthdays before we go. Michael Leakey having a birthday - champion cricketer, also working for Vision Australia, Brendan Keogh having a birthday. That mighty, mighty swimming coach for many of our Australian swimmers. Happy birthday to you Brendan. Also a very happy birthday to the wonderful Nigel from Western Australia, he's in the Hall of Fame as far as wonderful advocates go. So happy birthday to you Niall and also Kerry Gorman having a birthday. Terry turned 76 and for his birthday he played 76 trombones and thunder about 40 or 50. Check it out on YouTube 76 Six trombones. That'll be your earworm for the day. 

We've got to go. Stay tuned. Because coming up on 1197 AM, Vicki Cousins with Australia Geographic. Sam Rickard, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. Reminding you that Leisure Link is available on your favourite podcast platform. If you like the show, tell a friend or two. We'd love to have more listeners. Be kind to yourselves, be thoughtful, and think of others all being well. Leisure Link back at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio. This is Leisure Link.