Throwing, kicking, walking, running, stretching, listening and getting informed

00:05 Sarah

Hi, I'm Sarah Clifton by an Australian Paralympian and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

00:21 Peter

It's just gone 5:00. Trust you marked Anzac Day in the way it deserves. Peter Greco saying welcome to Leisure link here on Vision Australia Radio 1197 AM Adelaide, online at VA radio, VA Radio Digital in Adelaide, and Darwin through the Community Radio Plus app - Look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide. Also our friends listening through 103.9 FM in Esperance in Western Australia and the wonderful support we also get from Disability Media Australia - find out more about them at Powerd Media, powerd.media - and of course your favourite podcast or streaming service also finds us. And we're also on the Reading Radio network - we're everywhere! Peter Greco, as I said, mentioning that it's great to welcome you to Leisure Link - and this program coming to you from Kaurna land. Coming to you very, very shortly... 

We'll catch up with Sarah Clifton-Bligh, Paralympian in the field event... in a couple of field events. We'll chat to Sarah about that. Nathan Pepper will preview the APM-SANFL Employment League getting underway very shortly. We'll talk tennis and many other things with the very talented Andriana Petrakis. Allison Davies will join us talking about the sound of the bugle and the impact that it has on our brain. We also catch up with Aaron Chia from Guide Dogs SA-NT. They've got a very interesting campaign happening at the moment. Could this be the most expensive dog toy in the history of the universe? We'll find out very shortly from Aaron [?]. 

Catch up with Agata Montoya, who invite you to the Roundtable on Information Access for people with a print disability. It's happening in May. A chance for you to get along. We'll find out some of the things that are happening. We'll have yoga from Reeva Bryce and Adjunct Professor Denise Wood joins us from USC talking about updates to ChatGPT and to your iPad and iPhone. 

Well, it's always great catching up with people for the first time on this particular program. And indeed, the first time we're speaking to Sarah Clifton, who went to Paris in 2024 but also had a very good year all around in 2024. So great to meet you. Thanks for your time.

02:36 Sarah

Thank you so much. Yeah, I had a really good year last year and looking to progress it to [?Eli] as well.

02:46 Peter

So Sarah, your... an interesting... event if you like. Or events. Yeah. Your track and field in particular... what was the attraction of the field to get you involved with that?

02:58 Sarah

I do like field because it's, that's kind of like I can take some of my frustrations out on the field, and kind of... so there was that attraction, and it's also quite fun throwing - throwing implements and seeing if I can get them.

03:15 Peter

Now speak about things. You things you throw, you throw the shot put, which I guess many of us would be familiar with. But you also throw the club.

03:23 Sarah

Yeah. 

Peter

So the club was, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong... was originally designed for people with not as much hand controls.... so the Stoke Mandeville Games, which were the precursor to the Paralympics. And it was back in 1948 after the Second World War.

03:47 Sarah

Yeah. So it was designed for people with like less ability to throw, for example, a javelin. And it's designed to be thrown any way you like as well, so you can dive backwards, sideways. It's a bit like a discus in that... sense, because you can throw discus any way you like. Although there are more common forms of... to do it.

04:11 Peter

And of course, this... technique, very much a technique, but isn't there...

04:14 Sarah

Yeah. Technique. Half the battle. And a big part of it is your mindset. On the day, like technique and then the mindset, if... and then like 5% of it is muscle memory, to be quite frank.

04:31 Peter

What's harder to get right, Sarah? The technique or the mindset?

04:34 Sarah

To be honest, it's the technique. Yeah, okay. Because when you're what... I like to call it reverse psychology. Because if I focus on one aspect of my technique, it doesn't actually work. Everything just kind of... falls apart because my muscles don't actually do what I want them to do. So yeah, trying to get technique is is the hardest bit, and just trying to when something doesn't go right, trying not to get frustrated - because when I get frustrated, my muscles misbehave. So it's a hard learning process - because like, you're like, you don't want that distance, but you also have to go, I can't get frustrated because if I get frustrated, I just, like the whole competition is like shot to pieces.

05:26 Peter

Yeah. You also do a bit of track racing, don't you?

05:28 Sarah

Yeah I do.

05:28 Peter

Tell us about that.

05:30 Sarah

Well, I do anything really from 100 on the track to up to 15... I haven't tried 5000 yet. And and I do 10 Ks on the road, although I'm working up to a half marathon now.

05:47 Peter

You're still very young, so I guess what I you got a lot of improvement just naturally and I guess also, so improve it through experience.

05:55 Sarah

Yeah. So I learned a lot at Paris, and like that... if it hadn't occurred to me that, like, a lot of the officials wouldn't speak English, like out on the field. So that was... the first piece of kind of knowledge that I gained, that not all of them speak English and not all of them, even when you're trying to articulate what you want, will understand what's being said. And I kind of also learned that, like, not to be too disappointed and like... and not to kind of try, like with... feel well - more than half of it is in your head, like, and like not to get frustrated. And when it doesn't quite work, to just kind of go back to the basics and then just try and pull the competition together, even though it might not be the distance that I want. 

It was the best that I could do on the day, and that's been quite a learning curve to kind of get my head around, because I naturally want to do well now. And if I don't, I set up higher standards in a sense for myself than anyone else does. And so when I kind of don't reach the standard, I always got kind of frustrated with myself. I couldn't quite be able to say that, yeah, it wasn't a great distance, but it was the best thing that I could do on the day.

07:29 Peter

That's a high standard. That's part of being an elite athlete, isn't it? You're all very much... well, perfectionist, if I can put it that way.

07:36 Sarah

And when you're... like I said, if you're like me and you don't get... the distance you aim to get and the distance that you'd be proud of, it's quite a hard kind of turnaround.

07:48 Peter

Tell us about your coach, Sarah.

07:50 Sarah

Yes. I'm coached... my time coach is... David Bruce, and he's one of the best coaches I've ever had. Because he knows me like he knows when to push and when to, like, go, That's enough and kind of Take a break, or... he's just wonderful.

08:14 Peter

Oh, fantastic. Good to have a good relationship like that, isn't it?

08:16 Sarah

Yeah. And my track coach is, Louise Sauvage, also a legend.

08:21 Peter

I think I've heard of her!

08:24 Sarah

I wouldn't be surprised if you had.

08:26 Peter

Oh, just a little secret, Sarah: I reckon I interviewed... Louise when she was younger than what you are now. Gosh, that's a long time ago. I know we're we're all very old. That's okay. You're my third, then, Sarah. You're always going to say that's a long time ago, you must be really old. That's what you were thinking, wasn't it?

08:45 Sarah

Slightly.

08:46 Peter

At least you're honest.

08:48 Sarah

I am quite blunt. I don't [?see battle] very well.

08:52 Peter

No, that's fair enough too. We don't have. You don't have to be. Hey, Sarah. You're obviously very talented as far as an athlete goes, but you're doing a pretty cool thing off off the track too, aren't you? Off... yeah. Athletic career. Tell us about that.

09:05 Sarah

Yeah. So... I'm currently studying a Diploma in Library and Information Studies. Yeah. So I'm hoping to be a library assistant.

09:15 Peter

What, like, took you down that path?

09:18 Sarah

Well, to be honest, it was actually my brother who made the suggestion - because I had a go when I finished high school that I had... start up my own fashion business, and... I did a whole, my whole data project and major work on it. And by the time I got to the end, my head should say I... kind of I didn't want to do that just yet, because I wanted to get some money. And before I started, I'm actually trying... to start a business would cost a lot of money, even if I got a loan or a grant from the government. And my brother... suggested it because I wanted to do something with my time. Suggested that to do library studies.

And I kind of did a bit of research and... landed on... to do a diploma at... because I didn't want to go to university at that point in my life because I thought it looked too much like school. Both my brother and my sister went to university, and I'm like, I don't want to do something that looks like school - because I was a bit sick of school at the end of it because I'd, I'd done pathways. So I did my, I hate to say, in two years, and it's a lot like, I don't think I would have achieved what I'd achieved in one year, but two years allowed me that flexibility to go to Birmingham as well and to keep up the training and all of that. So I'm rather grateful to it. But you leave your friends... as well. So my final year.

11:03 Peter

Like your class. Your class.

11:06 Sarah

So I kind of I hung out, to be honest, with more of the teachers than anything because, I mean, I was an adult, like.

11:15 Peter

Yeah, yeah. Good point.

11:16 Sarah

And it was kind of, it was interesting when I was at... school, to see the difference between the 17 year olds and the 18 year olds. I know I'm getting off track. So, yeah.

11:29 Peter

So... you're doing that. Just before we go - we're running out of time. We never have enough time, but it's always the case.

11:34 Sarah

No. I'm sorry. Chatterbox.

11:36 Peter

Well, we love chatterboxes. You weren't... you said you wanted to get into fashion, but that's... cool. That's a pretty cool line.

11:42 Sarah

Yeah. So my idea with fashion designers creating clothes for people in wheelchairs.

11:51 Peter

Brilliant.

11:52 Sarah

Most specifically like formal and eveningwear - because there's not a lot on the market that you can get. And it's either ridiculously expensive or doesn't quite suit. So, yeah.

12:08 Peter

The best person to judge what something good would be is someone with lived experience.

12:12 Sarah

Yeah. And I mean, something that works for me might not necessarily work for another person, but my idea was to create something that's affordable but also suits the client's tastes as well. I haven't quite got up to my fashion business yet, though.

12:31 Peter

Well, you strike me as the sort of person that you're very determined, so it's something.

12:36 Sarah

We get around to it.

12:37 Peter

Yeah, it's something you get around to that? Sure. And when you do, you'll do it well, Sarah.

12:41 Sarah

Thank you.

12:42 Peter

It's been great catching up. As if we never have enough time. But it's been great to meet you for the first time. I'm sure it won't be the last time. Congratulations on all you've achieved so far, and I look forward to next time.

12:52 Sarah

Looking forward to talking next time. Thank you so much.

12:56 Peter

That's arah Clifton-Bligh, Australian Paralympian studying to be an assistant librarian, assistive technology and digital technology. And also maybe one day being a fashion designer. What a wonderful career is ahead. 

Let's find out what's happening in the real footy the inclusion league. I think it's about to get underway. Let's chat about it with from the SANFL, Nathan Pepper. Nathan, a bit silly to say this, but happy new season anyway. If not Happy... New Year.

13:26 Nathan

That's right. Yeah. I mean, what are we, we're in almost May now, so, yeah, time flies. But... yeah, thanks for having me on. And yeah, looking forward to chatting about the the new season of the APM Inclusive League.

13:37 Peter

Yeah, well, it gets underway soon.

13:39 Nathan

It does. Next Saturday, 3rd of May. We've got a a full round of fixtures, and I say that because we've got a new team entering the competition this year: the Broadview Football Club. So we're really excited to have Broadview on board. And that makes us, yeah, having a team. So we don't have that bye that we've had for the last few years with seven teams. So all teams playing this coming weekend.

14:01 Peter

That'll be a pretty welcome thing, wouldn't it, to have all eight teams? They say no, because I guess it's that continuity is important, isn't it?

14:07 Nathan

Yeah. It is. I think some sort of like having that little bit of time off during the year, but I think especially in the early rounds, everyone wants to just be playing. So no, it's... really nice. And, yeah, we're just really excited to have a, have a new club and I think, all the players from all the other teams will... welcome that as well because they love seeing, you know, a new set of colours, into the competition as well.

14:28 Peter

Well tell us a bit about Broadview then, uh, what's their colours and what's their nickname?

14:32 Nathan

Yeah. The Tigers. So yeah. Black and gold. Phil and Sally... have done a mountain of work behind the scenes, so Phil will be the new coach. He has, I think, a background in disability. He's done a lot of work in their women's football program and yeah, wanted to get involved in the Inclusive League. And Broadview said, Well, hey, we don't want you to go away to another club. We let's... set up a team here and... you know, credit to them, they're a Div 1 Amateur League club in the Adelaide Footy League. So yeah very well supported club and really excited. 

We were hoping they were going to get you know 10, 12 players to start with. And I think they've got about 14 training with them. So they've done a really good job to recruit some new players. Obviously anyone that's listening, if you are still interested, they have spots available, so we'd love to see them... get even more players before Round 1.

15:18 Peter

Well, I think, as you said, part of the amateur league or the or the AFL, I think it's called these days, isn't it. But it's a very been a club that's been established for quite some time and kind of highly regarded in that area too, isn't it?

15:30 Nathan

Yeah. It is... and they've... in the last year or two, redeveloped their clubrooms. They've got beautiful new clubrooms that, you know, second storey outlooks over the oval and, yeah, it seems like it's a really good place to play. We had a... we held our coaches' workshop there a few weeks ago... which was great to bring all the coaches in together and, you know, do a bit of a Meet and Greet - because we've actually got, four... out of the eight clubs have new coaches this year. So a little bit of a change there. But... we're really excited to see, you know, what that brings for the competition. And, you know, it's just great to hear from all of them that they're all on the same page with what this competition is really about.

16:07 Peter

What about in terms of... player movement between clubs? You talk about four new coaches that the players moved much between clubs and the off season, Nathan.

16:13 Nathan

Yeah, there's a little bit... I think winding back the clock - you know, ten plus years ago, sort of players were placed in teams a little bit with where they needed to go. But now players are generally playing close to where they live, which is why they can, you know, hit up their training once a week or twice a week. Some clubs train. And that's really important because I sometimes think that the training is actually the most important aspect of this competition, because that's where they build their, their friendships and their networks... on the training track. 

So yeah, we do see a little bit of player movement across the teams... a little bit of shuffling. I'm sure there's many players that just want to move to the winning team. Also some that just want to play with their mates, that might have switched because of, yeah, changing addresses and whatnot. So yeah, there's a little bit of movement.

16:58 Peter

That's a great point you make about the training, that kind of chance to build relationships. I guess the camaraderie, it's a little bit more... it's a bit less hustle and bustle and the urgency of, you know, playing on that particular day. You've got a chance to have a bit more of a relaxed setting, which I'm sure would, you know, be a bit more conducive to... friendship building and that kind of... getting to know each other thing.

17:19 Nathan

Yeah, absolutely. 100% like... I think that, yeah, there's that chaos of game day and the Wild One takes over everyone. You know, on the training track, that's when they can, yeah, have their conversations of what they're doing this week, or what they're getting up to, or what they do for work and yeah, build those relationships that way. So that's yeah, certainly really important. And, you know, the social inclusion element is really at the forefront of this league.

17:41 Peter

You talked about players you know, being close to... living where their clubs are. I mean that's a big thing. And... you're pretty well represented in terms of... the geographics of Adelaide now, aren't you, in terms of... from sort of north to south and east and west etc.

17:56 Nathan

Yeah, we're pretty good now. So Salisbury is our most northern, right down to Christies Beach being the most southern. Probably need a club in the West, I reckon if there's any clubs out there listening in the, in the western suburbs. But, you know, we've got sort of... yeah, Kilburn and Broadview pretty close together. Tea Tree Gully, Athelstone in that north east and yeah Goodwood Saints and Kenilworth sort of that south, mid-south sort of... setup. So yeah there's always a club that's pretty close, and we'd certainly love to... obviously this competition's primarily played in those metro regions. 

But, you know, future plans would be to, you know, have more opportunity in the, in the um, regional areas as well. So I know in the Riverland, uh, they're looking at setting something up as well with a few. Right. So yeah, just really excited to, you know, give more people an opportunity to play footy. And that's what it's all about.

18:43 Peter

Well such a strong area for football. Full stop. Is that Riverland. I mean going back years and years. Some of the the great players I mean well even players like Ricciuto and Ebert... obviously readily come to mind that... sort of come from the Riverland. So I'm sure there's a... great footy culture that can be tapped into for, you know, an Inclusion League-type setup as well.

19:01 Nathan

Yeah, hopefully. And um, yeah, I think well, as footy clubs are such a, um, you know, a focal point in the, in the community that that place where people come to every weekend and, you know, for such a huge part of that... in those areas. So yeah, there's no reason why they, we can't set up some... inclusion programs there.

19:20 Peter

What about when your games will be played, Nathan? Is that a regular thing, or is it a bit... depending on sort of each round?

19:26 Nathan

Yeah. Now that the primary time slots for 45 on a Saturday afternoon. So planning sort of following on from an A-grade footy match generally. But looking at round one fixture we've got one that's Christies Beach and Salisbury kick us off at 2:30 on Sunday the 3rd of May. So it's just something that there are a few different fixture times in there just depending on bashes and whatnot. 

And we've actually seen a couple of clubs that have requested to play the Inclusive League, sort of in between B-grade and A-grade. So sort of starting at the 2:15 time slot, which, yeah, just probably gives you a different look and, um, different people at the club that might get exposed to the league and understand what it's all about, playing a few different time slots, which is great.

20:09 Peter

Christies versus Salisbury. That's a great sort of derby, isn't it? So the extreme north and the extreme south, if you like.

20:15 Nathan

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Bit of a road trip there, in Salisbury going, going down south to Christies Beach just to start us off. But yeah, I'm sure they'll be... very looking, yeah, very much looking forward to it.

20:26 Peter

Would you like to nominate... here we are, the season hasn't started yet. Who might be the toughest team to beat? Nathan, it's fair to put you on the spot. What is it?  

20:34 Nathan

Fair. But I'm going to say it isn't, it's never fair. And, you know, everyone is a very impartial. I look at Hamilton, obviously were our winners last year. They'll... be around the mark again. I think a couple of players have left, but they've got a couple of players. I think Kenilworth will be pretty keen to get back into the grand final after after missing out last year. Yeah, the other grand final is Kilburn. I think they've lost a few players but have recruited a few as well, so it's all a bit of an unknown. And look, all the rest of the teams I'm sure are just as enthusiastic and really keen to, yeah, kick some goals and... yeah, obviously have some wins both on and off the field, which is, you know, what I'm all about.

21:14 Peter

What about the end of the season? Any news regarding AFL open and sort of a state competition or a state team?

21:20 Nathan

Yeah, it's... we're going back to where it all began, to Victoria later in the year. So I think it's the last weekend in our last week of October this year. So I've got the dates right in front of me, but last last weekend of October that will be taking place in... Victoria and that will be the yeah, the AFL open. So the combined... inclusion carnival and wheelchair championships as they were.

21:44 Peter

Alright. We'll look forward to hearing more about that. Now, that's the Inclusion League and still sponsored by APM, I noticed. That's pretty good. Oh very good.

21:51 Nathan

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We're really, really happy to have APM Employment Services on board again. I think this is season number six... which just... yeah, amazing to have that commitment... allows us to, yeah, keep doing what we're doing - and obviously, you know, if there's any players out there that need to be supported through their employment journey, whether it's a change or a change of work or new work, you know, they've been able to help those players out as well. So, you know, we don't like saying it's a sponsorship, it's a partnership. And it works both ways, which is fantastic.

22:22 Peter

Well, the other thing is not to get too much... off topic, but they're a big organisation. So to get someone like that on board, that sort of gives your competition and your work that you're doing a lot of credibility.

22:32 Nathan

Yeah. And I think, well, I can sort of proudly say that they were... with partnering with us first. And I think now they actually partner with... the Western Australian League... over there and the Queensland Inclusion League as well is... yeah, really good to see that. I guess they've seen value in the partnership that started with us, and they've extended that to other parts of the country as well, which is really cool.

22:56 Peter

Well, welcome to APM Employment. Of course, that opportunity for people to get employment is such an important thing as well as obviously being able to play footy, Nathan. No, later in the year, AFL wheelchair will get underway, so we'll chat about that when that starts or just as that starts. But you've got some happy things as far as the AFL blind football goes, later on in May.

23:15 Nathan

Yeah, really exciting news here. We...have been trying to get this program off the ground for a little while now, but we're going to hold an AFL blind exhibition series. So I think about this time last year we held some come and tries have really interest with with some players that came... to sort of learn the rules and understand the sport. But we're going to hold an exhibition series at AFL Max... in May. So it's on May the 17th, 24th and 31st from 4:30 to 6 p.m... on there on Saturdays. 

So we'll be promoting that opportunity coming soon and hopefully have as many people out to experience what... AFL blind is all about. So it's welcoming any players with blind or low vision. They can find out more information about writing on our Facebook page. So go to Sanford Disability Programs on Facebook. Or you can send myself an email, inclusion@sanfl.com.au - so inclusion at SANFL dot com dot AU, for more information about that one.

24:15 Peter

Alright. We'll put that information up on our show notes. And because it's pretty big, particularly in Victoria, I guess understandably in a sense. But it's big in Victoria, isn't it? I feel, blind?

24:23 Nathan

Yeah, they've... got a league that they've developed a number of AFL clubs on board. So we're just keen to see I guess, how many... players that we have to then work out what sort of competition or program we can develop from that. So yeah, hopefully we get a really good showing out at this exhibition series. You know, it's a... different sort of adapted game. There's a ball that Sherrin have developed that's specifically designed for blind and low vision players. It's got a buzzer in it. And then there's obviously some modified rules that go along with it. 

But it's just awesome to give players that experience of what footy can be like, because some that may not have ever played before, you know, they might have just supported their... team. Yeah, to give them the opportunity to actually play the game and participate, it's really cool.

25:08 Peter

And it's such a great point - many people are blind or low vision enough to follow the footy, but to actually be able to play, it is another thing, that's great. Now where is [? iPhone Mac said], Nathan?

25:16 Nathan

At the Adelaide airport. Oh yeah. The corner of Don Bradman and Tapleys Hill Road. There's a big, big complex there. But, yeah, as I said, we'll send out a lot of promotional... information about it, yeah. Have a... sign up for people to register, but certainly have a check on our Facebook page, SANFL Disability Programs on Facebook.

25:36 Peter

Terrific. Nathan, always great to catch up. Congratulations on all the great work that you're doing. How long have you been at the NFL now or with this... football competition now?

25:44 Nathan

Oh, it's about 6 or 7 years, I think, with the SANFL and perhaps a bit longer. I think it was, yeah, it might have been 2017, I reckon. I... it was the start of the when I took over the footy competition back at Inclusive Sport SA, it was called back then. Or before that when I first sort of started. So it's been a while but I, I love it, it's... really enjoyable and hopefully this season's going to be the best one yet.

26:07 Peter

Well, you don't sound any different to the day we first spoke, so... keep up the great work. We'll put those details up in our [?]  Well, particularly good luck to Broadview and we wish them well as they get underway. And I'm sure it'll be, as I say, another great season. We'll keep in touch throughout the year.

26:21 Nathan

No. Fantastic. Pete, appreciate your support as always.

26:24 S2

Nathan Pepper there from SANFL... the APM Employment League, they're getting underway. The inclusion league getting underway May the 3rd. We'll put those details up with our show notes, and Nathan's given you another place to go. And as always, any details that you miss, you can always give us a call at the radio station during business hours, in particular at [08] 8234 1197. You're in elite company listening to Leisure Link here on Vision Australia Radio, VA radio, digital varadio.org and through the TuneIn radio app. 

Well, Andriana Petrakis is one of our leading tennis players, but there's so much more to Andriana as well. Let's find out what she's been up to in recent times. Hello, Andriana. How are you going?

27:09 Andriana

Hello, Peter, I am awesome. Thank you. How are you?

27:12 Peter

I'm good. You're always awesome. I think you could be triple A. Always Awesome Andriana. Yes. Now, as I said, you've been playing great tennis for a little while. They're still very young, but you've been doing some other great things. So take us back to this year's International Women's Day. How did you spend that day?

27:32 Andriana

On the International Women's Day last month? I was a co-host for the first time.

27:39 Peter

And where was that?

27:40 Andriana

The International Women's Day event was at the Drive function room next door to the tennis courts.

27:48 Peter

Well, you would have felt at home, wouldn't you? The tennis courts. Just probably like your second home?

27:53 Andriana

Yes.

27:54 S2

Yeah. Tell us about the day then, that you co-hosted it. Just how the day sort of came out, how it went.

28:01 Andriana

The event was very inspiring. For example, I was a co-host, like, where I did a... this speech on introducing different guest speakers. And the main host of the event name was Brian Trotter.

28:20 Peter

Can you remember some of the people you introduced?

28:22 Andriana

Yes, I've introduced Dr Trudy Lynn, and I've introduced a lady that worked for SA health, and I also introduced a lady who has a son with a disability. Also, I was part of this small panel with the year 12 students and a soccer player named Eli Miller.

28:50 Peter

Terrific. So you were asked questions from the from the audience, or... how did that work?

28:55 Andriana

In that small panel... the year 12 student named Millie Ian - she asked different questions about my tennis and some positive stuff about women. So I shared my experience in front of the ladies and girls from all different walks of life.

29:21 Peter

Fantastic. Now you've done a few of these... you know, different at different times, different venues. Do you get a bit nervous when you appear before a live audience?

29:30 Andriana

No.

29:31 Peter

Yeah, yeah. Oh. Pretty cool.

29:32 Andriana

Yes. All pretty cool.

29:35 Peter

Now, you said you did a speech as well. Can I ask what sort of things you spoke about during your speech?

29:39 Andriana

Oh, that speech was about when I introduced different guest speakers.

29:45 Peter

Okay. Did you prepare for that or did you just do it off the top of your head?

29:49 Andriana

There was a lady from Complete Disability Services organised the script for me.

29:56 Peter

Fantastic. And what about when the... young year 12 student was asking you questions? Did you have any idea what they were going to be, or was it a bit like this interview? You know, you just come up with the answers.

30:07 Andriana

I also had the script of the questions too, and I offer my own heart, as usual.

30:17 Peter

You certainly do that very well. So that was great. And I think, as I said, you've been in a few International Women's Day, so from... different years, which is tremendous. Now you've also received some money. Tell us about this.

30:29 Andriana

Yes. Last month on the 6th of March, I have won the $10,000 Young Achievers Scholarship award.

30:39 Peter

That's fantastic.

30:40 Andriana

Thank you.

30:41 Peter

How did that happen?

30:42 Andriana

Oh, it's a bit complicated to say, but this was a new award category from a foundation group at the Advertiser.

30:55 Peter

$10,000?

30:57 Andriana

Yes.

30:58 Peter

That's... a lot of money.

30:59 Andriana

It is.

31:02 Peter

Can I ask what you've done with it?

31:03 Andriana

Basically, it's a $10,000 which is supporting towards my goals, and the $10,000 will go towards my tennis from my own future goals.

31:19 Peter

That's fantastic, isn't it? Well, congratulations on that. I mean, to win the award like that is fantastic. I mean, the money's nice, but I guess it's also the recognition as you, as a person, as an athlete to win something like that. People think a lot of you, which is great, isn't it?

31:35 Andriana

Yes. I felt so delighted, grateful, humbled, honoured and privileged with the scholarship award.

31:45 Peter

How were you told? How'd you get the news?

31:47 Andriana

What do you mean by that, Peter?

31:49 Peter

Did you get it... did you get an email or a letter in the post? Or someone ring you up? How did you, how did you get told?

31:53 Andriana

It was that, the Woman of the Year Awards night on the 6th of March.

32:00 Peter

Okay, so it was like before, again, before an audience and your name was called out and you went up to receive it?

32:05 Andriana

Yes. And I did a beautiful speech for them.

32:11 Peter

I'm sure you would have too. What was the... trip home like? You wouldn't have been able to stop smiling.

32:17 Andriana

No. And this was the week after my Victorian tournament Championships singles win.

32:27 Peter

Terrific. Well, it was a good few weeks for you, so that was... obviously you're still playing good tennis. I mean, despite or I guess with all these other things going on in your life, your public speaking and your scholarship wins and all that, you're still playing good tennis.

32:42 Andriana

Yes, I am, thank you.

32:44 Peter

Now, this weekend, you're in Canberra.

32:46 Andriana

Yes.

32:47 Peter

What's happening there?

32:48 Andriana

Well, this Thursday and Friday I have the training camp with my Australian team. This weekend I have my tournament.

32:58 Peter

Now the training camp, is that the AIs?

33:01 Andriana

I know it will be at the Canberra Tennis Centre indoor courts, but we'll be staying at the Australian Institute of Sports.

33:12 Peter

What's that like? Because, you know, for all the elite athletes like you stay... so you're kind of right up amongst them. That must be a real thrill as well, to kind of feel like you're immersing yourself in... the world of... elite athletes.

33:25 Andriana

Yes. The AI is so prestigious.

33:28 Peter

Yeah, that's a great word.

33:30 Andriana

It is.

33:31 Peter

Yeah. You're you're competing, as you say, and you're at a training camp. What are you getting ready for?

33:36 Andriana

This will be for my World Tennis Championships in Kazakhstan.

33:43 Peter

And you leave at the end of the month for that, don't you?

33:45 Andriana

Yes. I'll be leaving home next Wednesday, the 30th.

33:50 Peter

Have you been to Kazakhstan before?

33:52 Andriana

No. I'm so excited. The Asian continent for the first time to compete. Tennis there and doing some sightseeing around Astana.

34:06 Peter

That's fantastic. I mean, obviously you're a wonderful tennis player, but these little things where... I say little things, what am I saying? These things like trips overseas and a chance to see other cultures, see other parts of the world... that must be a really great thing for you to experience.

34:23 Andriana

True. It is an amazing experience for me.

34:26 Peter

I remember last year you went to Europe, didn't you? Because we had a chat to you whilst you were in Greece.

34:29 Andriana

Yes that's right.

34:31 Peter

Have you ever counted up how many kilometres you've... flown?

34:34 Andriana

No, I have not counted.

34:38 Peter

So it would be a few. You have a few frequent flyer points, Andriana.

34:42 Andriana

Mm. Okay. From when I was a teenager. When I did my first disability tournament in 2016, here in Adelaide, which are one of the singles during those times in the past. My recognition was different and as a young adult my recognition has become bigger, Peter.

35:09 Peter

I'm sure it has. And you know what I really like about some of the things you said even in this interview, is, you're humble and you're grateful - because a lot of people might think, Oh, I kind of deserve it, or I've worked for it, I've earned it. But you're... very gracious as far as the accolades and the praise that you get. You're... very gracious about that.

35:29 Andriana

Oh, thank you Peter.

35:32 Peter

I only speak the truth, Adriana.

35:34 Andriana

I know that.

35:36 Peter

Well, good luck with the camp. Good luck with Kazakhstan. I look forward to hearing how it goes. Both... tennis-wise and sort of tourist-wise as well. Now, who's going with you to Kazakhstan?

35:47 Andriana

My Dad this time.

35:49 Peter

Make sure you look after him.

35:50 Andriana

Yes, I will.

35:52 Peter

Andriana, it's great to catch up. You're a tremendous ambassador for tennis and for people with disabilities, a wonderful advocate. It's always great to hear from you. Thanks for keeping us in informed as to how you're going, and keep up the great work and safe and happy trails.

36:07 Andriana

Thank you very much, Peter. All the best.

36:10 Peter

Andriana Petrakis is there, champion tennis player and even a better person. 

Well, after Easter eggs and hot cross buns and all those lovely things, what better way to keep the lovely things coming by? Speaking to Allison Davies from Allison Davies dot com dot AU. Alli, great to catch up again.

36:31 Allison

Thank you Peter.

36:32 Peter

Now a serious topic this time. Yesterday or depending on when people are listening, we had ANZAC Day - and of course the sound of the bugle is such a part of ANZAC Day, we kind of only have to hear a few seconds of it, and we're kind of transported back to to think about ANZAC Day. Do you want to give us a bit of a, a sort of Allison Davies version of the sound of the bugle, and how that relates to music and music therapy and that sort of thing?

36:57 Allison

Sure. Can I start with, I'm not a bugle expert or a military expert. So my conversation around this is probably going to be more based in like how it feels to us to hear the bugle, but actually like the history. The bugle has a beautiful history, like it's a very... it's always been used as an instrument in relation to battle. Like if you think to the movies and you see movies either set in fantasy lands or hundreds of years ago, and they would have a horn and they would blow in a horn to sound the beginning or the end of a battle. Basically, the bugle is an extension of that as an instrument. 

The bugle has sort of changed many, many times over the years, always evolving. And the bugle and the trumpet are kind of cousins, is how I would describe it. So these days the trumpet has valves, which are the buttons that you press down to make different notes. And the bugle, there's a version of the bugle that has valves as well, and that's now called a cornet. So in an orchestra you'd have a cornet and a trumpet, but the bugle that you hear at ANZAC Day is still basically just a horn with no valves. So there's no buttons to press to change the notes. 

So when you hear the Last Post and the Reverie and the the bugle being played, all of those notes are being played by the way the musician is holding their mouth and using their breath and their muscles. So I think watching and listening to the bugle... well, to me is so fascinating because it's coming from complete control and strength and power and breath from the person who's playing it. And that's different to all of the other instruments. Almost all of the instruments now are tuned - so you like, you press a certain note or valve down or button down and a note will come out. But the bugle comes from just knowing how to move your breath and your muscles and your mouth. And so I think that's fascinating and incredible. 

But have you ever like, experienced where you listen to the bugle, especially at the dawn services... and because it's always played outside, it's it's like cutting through the air and you can just hear it all around you. The way that impacts us emotionally, and I would say ancestrally, is different to how we usually experience instruments. We're usually experiencing them inside in a band room or in a town hall or in an orchestra. But all throughout history, our ancestors have even heard a version of the bugle being played outside, in the dark, in the stillness, in a crowd of people who are all silent for various different reasons. 

Not just ANZAC Day, but like throughout history, people have, as as I spoke about before, heard these beautiful horns to signify the end, the beginning of the day, or the end of the day, or the beginning or the end of a battle, or to celebrate and... think about the people who've died in battle. And so it feels very ancestral. It feels very potent. Like when you hear the bugle played and the entire crowd is silent. And this muted, beautiful sound just pierces through the atmosphere. That feeling that we have is quite emotional. Would you agree?

40:16 Peter

Oh, absolutely. I'm getting emotional. You just talking about it. And you're quite right. I've been to a dawn service and the kind of silence of it and the, you know, the... coolness or coldness of the morning, it kind of all adds to the whole thing, isn't it? It is, it's an experience.

40:31 Allison

It is. Oh, and it's... the other thing about the bugle is because it doesn't have valves, so there's not that many notes that can play. It has a very small number of notes. You'll notice that with the Last Post. And the notes are very close together. The melody is very simple. It's not like a jazz instrument where it's it's going up and down and all over the place. There are few notes and so it's very simple. So the tune is something that our brain loves. I've spoken about this a lot. The brain loves simple melodies that are very simple and repetitive. 

So the Last Post and the Reverie and all of the different pieces that are played in relation to our military service and ANZAC Day, and I'm not an expert, so I don't know how many there are, but they're all a beautiful, simple melody where the notes are quite close together and that makes us feel safe and it makes us feel emotional as well.

41:25 Peter

I wonder whether the fact that as you talked about the control of the breath, etc., I wonder if that's almost a metaphor for either what we've been through or what we're preparing ourselves for as well.

41:35 Allison

Well, I mean, I think you can make a metaphor out of anything, and I think there's a beautiful in that because control, it's just the personal control. And so when the bugle player is playing the Last Post, for example, they have complete control over their instrument and over their breath and their body. And you can't really play that without being fully present in it. Because if you're not being fully present and committed to that tune, any old note could come out. 

And we've probably all been at a service or heard a last post where a little bit of a wonky notes come out. Yeah, no one minds that, as I'm sure that that's got to be worse for the bugle player than anyone else, because it's it's not something that anyone else would, um, care about. But it's just that, like, it's just that you have to be completely engaged and present and aware of all of your movements, all of your breath, everything that your mouth is doing to make that tune come out perfectly. And so, yeah, I do definitely think there's something in that, Peter.

42:37 Peter

And of course, the kind of well, I guess the irony of it. I mean, the thing is, if the big player that might be... I mean, they would have had probably a number of rehearsals, but that kind of might be their only chance for the day as well. So they've got that sort of... presence of expectation as well. That is right there. And this is my one and only chance, and maybe I might have to wait till next year to do it. So you've got to take that into account as far as their nervousness as well.

43:02 Allison

Absolutely. I mean, they must be so much pressure, to be there.

43:05 Peter

Yeah.

43:06 Allison

Because I mean, the other thing is everyone is silent. So every single ear is on you and your tune. It's not like... in an orchestra where the cornet or the trumpet might make a mistake, or any instrument might, but you're in an orchestra and it gets covered up and everyone moves on and no-one knows who it was. But playing it at dawn or at sunset on ANZAC Day is so... significant that I'm sure that there's pressure on everyone involved, not just, I mean the bugle player as well, but as a listener, I have so much anticipation for actually hearing the Last Post or the Reverie in the morning... services. 

And do you remember that year when we were in lockdown and... couldn't go? I got thrown out. This might be people might be horrified by this, but I got my saxophone out and played for my family at dawn, and... it felt really beautiful because we live up in the bush and there's no-one around. And... you could hear the sound of the saxophone going through the morning air and getting back to what we mentioned before about the ancestral... significance of this. People used to play out, play their instruments outside a lot, and that has become less and less and less and less people play their instruments outside at festivals. But that's a whole different sort of, um, you know, context. 

And so actually playing your instrument outside and being able to see the trees, listen to the wind, have the natural elements around you, and and be listening to someone play their instrument outside is something that used to happen a lot and is happening less and less. And so there's something very magical and almost like a remembering which is suitable, because that's what we do.

44:57 Peter

Yeah, it's very much a commemoration to... the actual day. And, and I guess to the, to those that are served and just the whole movement, if you can put it that way.

45:06 Allison

Yeah.

45:06 Peter

It's interesting you talk about ANZAC Day of course, or sorry about the COVID during Anzac. Yeah, COVID during ANZAC Day, those couple of years. I mean, there were people that were, you know, playing... in their front yards or whatever just to kind of try and... you know, have the day sort of still retain that... specialness about it.

45:25 Allison

Yeah. Lots of people did do that. Yeah. And I mean, I, I felt a bit like, Oh, this isn't meant to be played on a saxophone, but I thought, Well, whatever, there's no-one else around.

45:35 Peter

And a little bit tongue in cheek, but he talked about, you know, if... there is a note that goes a little bit astray, of course, because everyone knows it so well, everyone is going to pick up on a little mistake that might be made, which is totally unfair, but I guess that's kind of... the way it is with something like this.

45:53 Allison

It's just the way of it. But because we're all there, we're not there for the performance.

45:57 Peter

Of course.

45:58 Allison

Or a meaningful, spiritual... emotional moment. So no-one who goes, I can't imagine anyone getting upset or being annoyed about a missed note or a wonky note. And I think I feel so much for the people who are playing the bugle. If a note comes out a bit wonky because they're the only ones that are going to feel, you know, that sense of like, Oh no, like you said before, that was my one moment.

46:26 Peter

Yeah. Well, also, given what you've told us about... the fact that it is about controlling your breath, etc.. the breath is a thing that kind of goes first when you're getting nervous. So that kind of, you know, makes you a bit more prone to something maybe not going quite right.

46:41 Allison

Absolutely. And if you think back to to when the bugle calls were typically made, which was at the beginning of the day, and at the end of the day, at the end of battle or, or when someone had died, you know, those musical moments were not about performance. So the note, the sound that came out was not the most important part of the experience. So when we go to the ANZAC Day... ceremonies and we hear the bugle call, what we're hearing is like a historical, important musical expression, not a performance that has to be perfect.

47:18 Peter

You talked about the Psalms, and I think one of the really great things that I mean, Australians often get criticised for their Yahoo! If I can say, particularly at sporting events. But isn't it fantastic when particularly before some of the the football matches. They have the ceremony if you like, and you do have that, you know, it's chilling silence just before the last post plays and the whole ceremony that that silence is such a powerful thing. I mean, you know, it's something so quiet could be so loud if it can make any sense.

47:47 Allison

Oh, that makes a lot of sense. Absolutely. And I actually think that humans are longing for more of those moments where we're all together and all agree. We're all, you know, everyone agrees on the on the moment of silence. Everyone knows that. That's just what happens. It's not like some people are going, no, we're not going to do it. Some people are saying... You have to do it. You can't do it. Like everyone just unanimously stands. And there's a beautiful connectedness in that. And it feels very safe. It's very soothing for our nervous systems to know that a whole crowd of people can stand next to each other in unanimous silence.

48:22 Peter

It's a great term, isn't it? Unanimous silence. Ellie, that was brilliant. And certainly, even though the day has gone, we certainly respect and commemorate the day and those that have given their time and their lives before us. Now, if people want to find out more about you, Allison Davies dot com dot AU. You're also on all the social media channels that people can check you out, and we'll catch up again next month.

48:45 Allison

Lovely. I look forward to it.

48:46 Peter

That's the [?] there from Allison Davies dot com dot AU. If there's a topic you'd like Alison to cover in the area of music or music therapy, get in touch and we would love to research it and bring it to the air for us.

49:00 Vision Australia Radio Adelaide ID

You're listening to Vision Australia Radio in Adelaide on 1197 AM

49:06 Peter

Well, coming up April 30th is International Guide Dog Day. Rather interesting launch last week by Guide Dogs SA-NT. To tell us about it, e've got Aaron Chia, their CEO. Always great to catch up Aaron, good to speak to you again.

49:19 Aaron

Hi Peter. Always good to catch up with you too.

49:22 S2

Yea, well you did something just a little bit different last week.

49:24 Aaron

Yes, yes, we had our launch for our Guide Dogs Day. And this year, we've got a very special guest: Frankie, which is a fluffy little dog, has decided to support guide dogs. And... Frankie's decided to... donate his... favourite toy. Ropey. It's a chewed up string toy, rope toy and... Ropey. He's put it up for us to raise the money out of it.

49:51 Peter

Now... I'm not sure if you're allowed to tell me, but... who came up with this idea? Because I guess, you know, it's a pretty competitive field out there to try and get attention for different great... campaigns, etc. and great ventures. But, yeah, able to say who came up with this?

50:07 Aaron

Absolutely. KWP and partners. So Sam Davies and his crew at KWP and partners... have come up with this. They were great supporters of us last year, as you probably know, in our campaign, our first Guide Dogs Day launched last year. And yeah, this year, now that they've come... along and help us out again. And hopefully if we're doing something over this bar. Yeah.

50:29 Peter

Yeah. Well, so the novelty is the kind of king when it comes to fundraising. What about in terms of, I guess, the message behind it, because you're wanting the public to get involved and obviously corporates to get involved as well?

50:39 Aaron

Yes... you know... Guide Dogs Day coincides, as you know, with International Guide Dog Day. And, you know, from an international perspective, it's a great opportunity to really acknowledge the impact guide dogs have, you know, in terms of people with low vision and blindness and the impact on how they can gain their independence from a Guide Dogs Day point of view, I guess, you know, we're we're here local and we're saying that, you know, it's time to celebrate the impact we've had and also raise some funds for much needed guide dogs, moving forward.

51:12 Peter

So that's about... where... have I seen the cost to raise a guide dog from kind of... well, from from zero to, well, I guess to the end of a dog's working life? That... would be a very expensive exercise or, well, I guess in a sense you can't put a price on the value of it, but I guess you can kind of put a price on it at the same time, if that makes any sense.

51:31 Aaron

You know, we don't cross it, across the life of the dog, but, you know, across the two years that it takes over two years to to get a dog to be matched... it's well in excess of $50,000...

51:44 Peter

Wow.

51:45 Aaron

... to do that. But when you look at it in terms of... the volunteer time and the training, the full year of training after it reaches about 12 months old, it takes a lot. And because not all dogs make it through as well, it's not an exact science, you know, in terms of getting... ten dogs out when you put ten dogs into the program. So... that's why it's a costly exercise.

52:08 Peter

It's not an exact science. By the same token, I know that the time that I've been doing this program, I guess the kind of the genetics and the work that goes into kind of, you know, the breeding programs to get the best possible chance of the guide dog being great is... just incredible nowadays, isn't it?

52:24 Aaron

It absolutely is. And that's why it costs so much. Because now there is, there's a lot of science behind getting it to a certain stage. But in terms of the the number of dogs that actually, you know, are actually fit the bill to match to a particular client, that's not that straightforward.

52:41 Peter

You talked about 50,000 for for a guide dog. I mean, I'm showing my age a bit, but when I first started doing this program, we were talking about this sort of thing. I mean, the kind of ballpark figure was 8 to 10 thousand. So, you know, that's 5 or 6 times the amount in, you know, 30 years, which I'm not sure how inflation goes with that, but I guess it gives people a bit of... an idea of the... rapid rate in which the costs have gone up.

53:05 Aaron

You know, I've been involved with guide dogs now almost eight years. And... the good news is that it hasn't really shifted during the time that I've been and,  a lot of it sort of, and we try to do our best in terms of providing a dog regardless of whether funding is available or not. But the challenge is maintaining those donations so that we can continue to subsidise what we can.

53:27 Peter

And one of the great things about the work that Guide Dogs do is the high sort of... value that people put on it as far as your credibility and your integrity goes, your trust.

53:38 Aaron

Yes, yes. You know, we're continually the... most, one of the most trusted brands around. And as you know, that sort of trust only goes by as good as your last act. Yeah. So, you know, we have to continue to deliver the impact that we do and continue to protect that reputation.

53:58 Peter

What's coming up on April 30th?

54:00 Aaron

So April 30th, firstly, we're inviting all our corporate supporters and... people and businesses to support Guide Dogs Day. And probably, you know, the opportunities that are available are, you know, having a morning tea or an afternoon tea. You know, some places are wearing orange for the dye guide dog. Orange, of course. And... we're in-house. We're actually... running a, like a telethon. 

We're actually, we've got some corporate partners coming in manning the phones, and we're jumping on the phones ourselves to to ring potential donors and asking them to support us because... thanks to... our corporate sponsors, they're going to be matching every donation coming through. So... we're really hoping to... really ramp it up and leverage that matching process with a target of $350,000 this year.

54:48 Peter

And that's where that word trust is so important isn't it?

54:51 Aaron

Oh yes. Yes, absolutely.

54:53 Peter

And you talked about matching. And of course, you know, getting a guide dog to the point where they can be a guide dog with a client is one thing. But then that matching process is such an important thing. And we spoke to David Brown a few weeks ago about that. And, you know, he's obviously very, very happy with what he's had more than one dog, but he's obviously very, very happy about that. But I mean, that's an important sort of connection as well that needs to be made, and that's got to work as well.

55:17 Aaron

Yes, absolutely. You know, and we take a lot for granted that, you know, a dog that's matches to a client. But, you know, we've got louder clients and softer clients in terms of speaking voices. We've got taller and shorter, faster walkers and slower walkers and and so the personality of the dog really needs to be, you know, matched to the client. And where they do match, you can tell it's a match made in heaven.

55:41 Peter

Yeah. And again, the talk that... they speak or the way they speak about the... difference it can make to their lives is just... well, it literally is very, very moving.

55:51 Aaron

Oh, it absolutely is. You know, after our puppy graduation this year, we had the father of one of our youngest clients come up to me and said, now, how big a change her life has had, once... she was matched with a dog because she was able to, you know, get a uni... you know, she had a different circle of friends. She was able to get out and about and they gave him a big hug. And now I still have a lump in my throat every time I talk about it, but it's... so sort of, you know, the impact that we make, that that makes, it makes it all worthwhile.

56:26 Peter

And the other thing about stuff like that, and I think about this often, and probably people here get sick of me hearing say this sort of thing, but it's kind of that broader message that can spread with something like that. I mean, you talk about someone going to uni or someone going to work, you know, someone sort of being seen out and about in their neighborhood with that independence - I mean, all of a sudden that, the sort of narrative changes are there and say, Look what they can do, rather than, Oh, gee, I feel sorry for them because of the fact that they might be blind or have low vision. And that's such a powerful message.

56:56 Aaron

Yes, sir. Right there. Peter. You know, we talked about the the price of a dog before, and we always say the outcomes outcome is priceless. You know, because it's not just the person with the dog that it impacts. It impacts everyone around that person in and around that person and and gives her that person a chance to shine. You know, to share his or her sort of... values and... everything they have, they can share now rather than just be on their own.

57:26 Peter

I guess everyone's got a personality, and sometimes you need different things to bring it out of you, Aaron.

57:30 Aaron

Absolutely.

57:31 Peter

Absolutely. So you've got the the telephone and all the events around on International Guide Dog Day, April 30th coming up. What about Frankie? People can get involved with that as well, can't they?

57:42 Aaron

Yes, yes. Now Frankie's got a platform... if you jump on... line to Guide Dogs Day, you can actually donate to help Frankie raise funds for guide dogs. So, as I said before, you know, Frankie's got his favourite toy, his favourite toy up there, and, yeah, she's raising funds for it. So we're hoping to raise as much as we can off that, and... thank Frankie for her help.

58:07 Peter

Now, I think you're trying to make Rugby, what, the most expensive dog toy in the history of the universe or something.

58:12 Aaron

We certainly are. So... everyone's finding out about Rugby. So I say to people, it doesn't matter if it's a dollar or $2. You know, if... 100,000 people donate a dollar, they make...

58:23 Peter

Yeah. Terrific. So... Guide Dogs Day a go, is where to go.

58:27 Aaron

That's it.

58:27 Peter

Terrific. And we'll catch up with you next week. We'll give you a chance to experience... International Guide Dog Day. Give us a bit of an idea afterwards of how it's all gone. Both, I guess financially and sort of... emotionally, the sort of spirituality of the day as well, because that'll be good to kind of share that. So, enjoy your weekend. Enjoy International Guide Dog Day to all those out there, both... volunteers and staff and clients... it's an important day. And, you know, kind of around this time of the year, we've had Easter or Anzac Day. It's kind of good to mark a day like International Guide Dog Day with... an event. And just to kind of put it in the calendar for something for us to... all observe.

59:04 Aaron

It certainly is.

59:04 Peter

Thanks for your time, Aaron.

59:05 Aaron

Thanks very much, Peter. Thanks for your support.

59:07 Peter

Always really fabulous catching up with Aaron, the very hard working CEO for Guide Dogs SA-NT. So if you'd like to get involved with that campaign to try and raise money for the most expensive dog toy, Frankie is the dog. Ropey is the toy. You can get involved by going to Guide Dogs dot com dot AU. Guide dogs dot com. If you prefer to ring, then ring [?08] 8203 8333 - ring Guide Dogs SA-NT [08] 8203 8333.

59:39 Angie

Hi, I'm Angie Ballard, co-captain of the 2024 Australian Paralympic Team, and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

59:51 Peter

We'll talk to [?Far Away]. Now the Roundtable on Information Access to People with a Print Disability. Let's chat about it with Agata Montoya. Agata, lovely to speak to you again.

1:00:00 Agata

Lovely to be here. Thank you. Peter.

1:00:02 S2

Now, we spoke to you and Dr Joe Keating a couple of weeks ago regarding your presentation at the round table about public libraries and how they can perhaps be a bit more accessible. What other things interest you about the conference at this stage?

1:00:14 Agata

Well, there's it's a really exciting program. So this is going to be the first conference that I'm helping to organise, and the fourth one that I'm attending, and it's, there's a lot going on about technology, of course. So AI, smart devices, Braille displays and basically just looking at how technology is reshaping information access for people with disability. So this is really exciting. We are going to also have presentations on the impact of changing legislation. So Marrakesh Treaty, but also Disability Discrimination Act and some other areas. We will talk about Braille as usual... we'll focus on lived experience and co-design. Yes. As you mentioned, Joe and I are going to talk about... what can we do to make public libraries more accessible? So there's a lot of really exciting presentations and keynotes.

1:01:09 Peter

I guess one of the great things about something like this, there's kind of something for everyone. I'm thinking in terms of, you know, sort of high-end professionals, but also very much, the consumer can get a lot from a conference like this as well.

1:01:20 Agata

That's right. So this is a beauty. I go to quite a few conferences, but this is a very special conference because you have academics coming with research, you have industry people coming with their perspective, you have disability sector representatives coming and talking about... and most importantly, we have people with lived experience of disability coming and presenting and coming as audience asking us questions. It's a really amazing space to be, and I've learned a lot from every time I attended a conference, just being in the same space.

1:01:51 Peter

You talked about, I guess kind of that comes under the umbrella of innovation. There's so much happening in that area, and I guess it's good to attend something like this to kind of catch up on what's happening, because it's pretty hard to keep across it otherwise.

1:02:03 Agata

That's right. I'm struggling keeping up with... they are, it's... things are changing... so rapidly. Yeah. It's a... really interesting, problematic space in many ways. But in the area of disability there are amazing opportunities. So, we need to look at I, you know, critically and look at the ethical considerations, but they are really a huge opportunities. So one of the presentations that we are going to have from Monash University is going to be on AI-enabled assistive smart glasses for example.

1:02:36 Peter

Yeah. Well that's certainly, kind of, you know, something sort of new-ish, but also very exciting in terms of its opportunities or its potential. 

Agata

That's right. 

Peter

I mean, for reading anything. I mean, I guess we might think about, you know, print disability, but we're reading anything we're talking about, you know, those ghastly bills that might come along or... reading for pleasure, reading for... school, reading for... work, etc. That's right. Absolutely.

1:03:01 Peter

What about some of the presenters that... you've been, as part of your role, I guess able to kind of... arrange to come along?

1:03:09 Agata

Yes. So I might just focus briefly on our keynote speakers because, yeah, it's always exciting and we try to find... really outstanding speakers to to lead the conference discussion. So we'll have Maryanne Diamond, who's a board member of NDIA, and she will talk about the impact of Marrakesh Treaty. Then we have... Professor Gerard Goggin, who used to be my colleague at the University of Sydney, but he moved a year ago also to Western Sydney University. And he will talk about digital citizenship. So his new project, where he's looking at how we can improve digital access via the lens of citizenship. So this is really I'm really looking forward to it. 

And then we have Kylie Iles and Jonathan Craig from Vision 2020 Australia. And it will be a really interesting presentation, about 25 years of collaboration - and collaboration is so important in any area, but especially in print visibility. And finally, I want to mention Sonali, who is going to talk about the decade of progress at the Round Table. So we've had some really exciting news at the Round Table this year. This is going to be, this is Ali's last conference as the president because... it's her, the end of her second period of presidency. So, she will she will have this... chance to talk about what has happened within the Round Table over the last decade or so.

1:04:34 Peter

Interesting, isn't it, because we talked about how things are changing so quickly, and sometimes you need that sort of reflective period to look back and say, Gee, has all that happened, you know, in the last 5 or 10 years? So that'll be fascinating.

1:04:47 Agata

Absolutely. I'm really looking forward to it.

1:04:49 Peter

And you talked about Maryanne Diamond and the Marrakesh Treaty. I mean, I remember vividly following the Marrakesh Treaty and YPO and all that sort of stuff that was happening during Maryanne's time, particularly with the World Blind Union. She kept us right up to date with that so very much at the cutting edge of that development or those developments.

1:05:06 Agata

That's right. So now it's been, what, 11 years or so since... the Marrrakesh Treaty. So it'll be really interesting to see, you know, especially with her, you know, being so involved in the early days, like how, what's, you know, what the impact has been of the treaty globally.

1:05:21 Peter

And one thing I can say about Mary, and I've actually attended a couple of... events that Maryanne has spoken at and she's the most, most impressive speaker. So what she's got to say will be very interesting, but how she says it will also will be captivating. So that'll be fantastic. And Jonathan Craig, another person well known to this program, he's always a very articulate... person as well.

1:05:42 Agata

Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

1:05:43 Peter

I guess because they're, the Roundtable has got a wonderful... sort of pedigree, if you like, in terms of its history, it's probably... well, I say easily, but, you know, people know about you when you're approaching them to come and speak at an event like this.

1:05:56 Agata

Yes, we have no issues with with getting speakers to come along to our conference. So yeah, that's not a problem at all. And now I don't know whether somebody told you about it, but we got international awards last year. So this and we got the YPO's Accessible Book Consortium International Excellence Award as an initiative. So this really highlights the work that, that, um, the members of the roundtable have done over the last, well, more than 40 years in improving access to information.

1:06:29 Peter

That's pretty... well, congratulations on that. We'd like to leave it. Congratulations. Now it's happening in Melbourne in May. 

Agata

That's right. 

Peter

Do you want to give us the details? Yeah. I'll let people know how they can register.

1:06:39 Agata

That's right. So the conference is happening, it starts on Saturday, the 24th of May with the Australian Braille Authority annual meeting. And then we have a welcome to the conference in the evening on Saturday, and then the conference will, the conference proper will start on Sunday and will finish on Tuesday the 27th of May, with a very exciting gallery excursion with Sophie Schopenhauer and Dr Matthew Butler. So the plan is to visit National Gallery of Victoria on the Federation Square. So this is really exciting to us. And multi-sensory art history tour, this is how it's described.

1:07:18 Peter

Oh, brilliant.

1:07:19 Agata

Yes. The conference is going to be held at Stamford Plaza Hotel in Melbourne, and if people want to register, we will be... great, the registration, you need to go to the roundtable website.

1:07:32 Peter

Yeah. Print Disability dot org.

1:07:34 Agata

That's right.

1:07:35 Peter

Terrific. Actually, that's another person we've spoken to in recent times is Sophie. Sophie. Coppenhall. So... I'm very, very passionate about the work that Sophie was doing as well, doing some research as well when we spoke to her. So that's that's tremendous.

1:07:48 Agata

Fantastic. Really glad to hear that.

1:07:50 S2

Well, we wish you, finally, well, because... you very kindly stepped up to speak to us because we're going to speak to Sonali. Sonali, hope you're feeling very much better very soon. And maybe we can catch up with Sonali afterwards so she can kind of maybe summarise the ten years that she's been at the helm to give us a bit of an idea of what was said at the conference. I got it to you and all those involved. Good luck. Congratulations on what you've done so far. Congratulations on the award. And as I say, we look forward to catching up afterwards and finding out how it all goes. And if people want to find out more, just Print Disability dot org is the website.

1:08:22 Agata

Thank you Peter. Lovely talking to you as always.

1:08:24 Peter

That's Agata Mrva Montoya. That is an event not to miss, an award winning weekend, say it's been well recognised. So certainly if you can get along, get along and we'll chat more about it after the conference is over. 

Let's catch up with our yoga expert, Reeva joins us each month. Reeva Bryce. Reeva, welcome. Thank you for your time again this month.

1:08:46 Reeva

Hello, Peter. Tonight we're going to do eye exercises.

1:08:50 Peter

Okay.

1:08:51 Reeva

And they're just to relax tired and sore eyes. Mm. It's all done just with your eyes. You don't move your head. If you wear glasses, take them off. Now the repeat time I'm giving for each exercise is three. But you can do more comfortably in a chair or on the floor. We're back to straight. And let your hands rest on your thighs. Now the first one we're doing this actually two. In this one you can separate them if you wish to. Between staring and focus, look straight ahead and keep your eyes wide open until they start to moisten or feel tight. Then close your eyes. Screw them up tightly over wide and blink rapidly. And you can repeat that three or more times. The blinking. You can do that on its own if you want to, but I find that it works really good with the staring as well. 

Now the next one is side to side and move your eyes to the right. So as you can, without turning your head and back to the center, and then to your left, and again you take them over to the other side, the right side, and then back, and just repeat that once or twice. The next way is up and down. Are you moving your eyes up and down in a straight line? So you're looking up towards the ceiling, but don't move your head. Draw the eyes down as far as you can. Take them up again. Back down and repeat again once more. Remember not to move your head. 

The next one is diagonal and again you use the ceiling corners for here. And again, don't lift your head up or eyes only to look up to the right corner, then down to the left. Can you repeat that a couple more times? Then you look up to the left corner, and down to the right. You do that a couple more times. Remember, eyes only. Don't move your head. Now we draw a rectangle. You can start at the right corner and draw your eyes down in a straight line. Down on that side to the bottom. Then straight a line across the bottom and up to the left, right, up, and then again draw the line back to your start. Point to that right side. Now repeat that a couple more times and then you reverse it. Are you starting at the left? And you draw the straight line down on your left side, across the bottom, up the right side, across the top that you start with. That's your rectangle. 

The next one is circling. Some call it the clock. You don't look into straight ahead and the clock in your eyes. And you can see 12 there. And that's where your eyes rest. And then you circle to the right. You're going clockwise. Big circle right around. Up to that 12 again. And repeat that circling a couple more times. And then you go anti-clockwise. So you'll be going to the left then going drawing that circle anti-clockwise three times. Now that's most of the exercises for the eyes. 

Now the next one is like a resting if you like... you palm. It's called palming, and you rub the palms of your hands together until they feel warm, heating them, and then place them, place the palms over your eyes. Keep your eyes in close to your chest. Now make sure there's no light coming in through your fingers at all or through the palms. Your is only dark. It's only darkness there. And then close your eyes. Don't sent me to hand to door, keep that darkness there, and then slowly breathe in and out, allowing you to relax more and more. You slowly remove your hands and wait for a while before you open your eyes and start moving around again.

That being said, I freaking love that, and for you yourself now, other benefits - beta release stress, particularly in the face and eyes, reduces soreness and redness from the eyes. Strengthens your eye muscles and improve flexibility. Blinking helps to lubricate the eyes, preventing dryness. This is very important if you spend a lot of time staring at a computer screen or on your iPhone. Air conditioners also can dry your eyes. Lubrication protects the eyes from bright lights, dirt, dust, and other debris, and these exercises are all calming and relaxing to the eyes, and we don't always get them the attention they deserve. And you yourself will feel much better after these exercises. 

Now, Peter, I have a little hint here if you like. Also for if your eyes are looking a bit red and a bit sore and tired.

1:13:56 Peter

Okay.

1:13:56 S12

And you're bathing them. Actually, I use a little medicine cup and you start with warm water and just with one eye, and you need to move your head up a little bit and then down again to splash your eye, get the water going into your eye, and you'll do one eye seven, ten times and then do the other eye. And that's just with warm water. Don't have hot water. You don't want to burn your eyes at all. And then you put cold water in your little cup and you do the same. You're washing your eyes. Keep your eyes open. Keep your eye open as you splashing that water into it. It will dribble down your cheeks and that a little bit, but it won't matter. 

Now, it might feel a bit worse to start with. You know, they might. I might still feel quite sore, but it will go away. And you can repeat it if you feel you need to. And your eyes will look much better. A lot of that redness will go out and they'll look brighter. So there is little hint that you can also use for your eyes. And there are some people... and I'm like that, I can't use any eye drops. My eyes are too sensitive, so the water helps terrifically in that way.

1:15:07 Peter

Now, if people want to contact you for some one on one, how can we get in touch with you?

1:15:12 Reeva

Yes, on my mobile 0412 866 096.

1:15:19 Peter

Thank you so much for that. We'll catch up again next month.

1:15:21 Reeva

Yes we will. The months sliding by very quickly, aren't they?

1:15:25 Peter

Have a good evening.

1:15:26 Reeva

And good night, Peter. And good night to everyone.

1:15:29 Peter

Reeva, yoga expert. If you want to contact Reeva  for some one-to-one on 0412 866 096. That's 0412 866 096. And apologies, that wasn't the best of lines this time round, but hopefully you got enough to get out of it, as far as some exercises that might help as far as your tired eyes go. 

So it's always fabulous. Catching up with Adjunct Professor from USC, Denise Wood, with lots of interesting news about technology and related issues. Denise, good to catch up again.

1:16:08 Denise

Hello, Peter.

1:16:09 Peter

Right now you've got some news from the Human Rights Commission.

1:16:12 Denise

Yes. So the Australian Human Rights Commission has just published its update on its guidelines to assist organisations and businesses to meet their legal obligations under the Disability Discrimination Act of 1992 - in particular around digital products and services. So the last update was well, more than ten years ago. So it's really good to see that they have now updated those guidelines. And they those updates are to reflect the changes in the World Wide Web's Web Content Accessibility Guidelines, which we're up to Version 2.2 and the previous advisory notes were version 2.0. And as you would imagine, since 2014, there's been a lot of changes in technology and the types of technologies that we're using. 

So it's really important that these guidelines now do reflect the broader range of technologies. And these guidelines are for organisations and businesses that create and provide digital products and services, suppliers of hardware and software, and of course, employers who use digital technologies for their staff so that it ensures that all of those resources and digital technologies can be accessible. And as the Disability Discrimination Commissioner Rosemary Kaye pointed out, it is unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of disability, and the new guidelines are for to make sure that individuals and organisations can avoid that kind of discrimination when they're providing digital products and services, including online learning, hybrid working arrangements and and of course, essential services such as emergency information. They mean grocery shopping and so forth. 

So really good to see... those updates. And of course, what we'll now look forward to is, uh, all the states and territory, territory governments now updating their guidelines because they're always aligned, of course, with the Human Rights Commission guidelines. So I expect we'll now see some fairly significant changes in the advisory notes for government workers and departments.

1:18:30 Peter

Well, it's good if I can kind of share the ways that the government departments, I mean, it's kind of up to them to set their example in a sense.

1:18:35 Denise

Well, you would hope so, yes.

1:18:39 Peter

Tell me... some news regarding ChatGPT.

1:18:41 Denise

Oh, yes. Well, we we have to always have a segment of this session that talks about AI because of course, that is is moving so rapidly. So OpenAI, which is of course, responsible for ChatGPT, has just had really major, major advances with their new models, as they call them - the new version, zero three and zero four mini models, that are available to use now for Pro Plus team. And there's even some options now for free users. And these models significantly improve the performance of ChatGPT. They're particularly to note they're quicker at reasoning tasks than the earlier open AI models such as ChatGPT three. 

They can - now this is the really cool thing - they can intelligently decide which of Open AI tools to use when you put in your text query. And this includes an ability to reason with images, which is quite astounding. So you can now upload an image and ChatGPT can now look at that image and then provide advice for the example they give you. Upload a photo of a car and it can now tell you the model of the car, the year of the car, colour of the car, but also you know what its value might be in five years, because it's doing it's reasoning. It's just extraordinary. And of course, those tools don't include just the use of images. I mean, you can put in a problem and it will automatically know that you want to use its tool for coding the, program coding for example. 

So this is a a really significant step forward in the development of AI. And they say that this is, you know, really the next step for AI, to be able to reason much like a human can reason. The other thing that will worry people like myself who are educators is, in this age of ChatGPT and, you know, academic integrity, one of the things we were telling academics to do with their assessments is, make sure that you require the student to explain the steps they took to arrive at the solution. But this, these new models actually talk you through the steps it's taking to arrive at the conclusion. So [?Vikander] used that as a way to differentiate whether a student has used AI inappropriately. So, it's... a brave new world, Peter.

1:21:21 Peter

You kind of wonder what impact this might have on professionals in five, ten, fifteen years time, depending how they got to this position and then how that impacts on their careers. But I guess, you know, only time will tell.

1:21:33 Denise

Well, yes. Over... stay tuned. Because... I know that... they're contemplating the next major release of... open AI. These were many steps. So this is what a mini step is mostly like. You can imagine what the next generation is going to look like. So of course, you'll hear it first on this station.

1:21:54 Peter

Through you, Denise, because you're right up with it, I just follow.

1:21:57 Denise

Yeah.

1:21:58 Peter

Now we're speaking about following. Of course, many of our listeners would be using Apple, either the iPhone or the iPad, and they've got a new... iOS update out or late in March.

1:22:09 Denise

That's right. The last day of March, Apple officially released version, 18.4 - and of course, the accompanying iPad OS 18.4 to the public, which brings the new functionality for VoiceOver and Braille users. And of course, we've just been talking about AI. Some more enhancements to Apple, which as you recall, Apple is calling AI Apple Intelligence, including priority notifications, expanded language support... of course, it wouldn't be an update without new emoji characters and new ambient music feature, email categorisation and... more. 

So some of the new features for VoiceOver and Braille users: it's now possible to change when and if VoiceOver speaks the type of control currently in focus. So you can now control whether it's going to speak, heading link button... so those settings are under Accessibility, VoiceOver, Vivocity controls. And you can choose whether control types are spoken before or after the contents. Since you can do an indefinite double tap and hold on a Braille display when recording an audio message. For example, in the message app, or trying to fast forward or rewind a podcast or audio material so you just double press space with dots three, six, seven, eight. Press the key combination once more to release the hold. 

There's a three wing, three finger swipe down at the top of the page in Safari, so that will no longer immediately refresh the page when the gesture is first performed, instructing you to scroll up again to refresh. So, VoiceOver on iOS and iPadOS will announce the positions of items when navigating a bulleted list, and they've resolved several bugs in VoiceOver and Braille. So if you are using VoiceOver and Braille with iOS, you will probably want these latest updates.

1:24:16 Peter

Well, I must admit I'm a little bit reluctant to update just in case something is unintentionally broken.

1:24:21 Denise

Yes, well that's true.

1:24:22 Peter

I think I think you might have given me the All Clear because I'm still on the previous version, just in case, but...

1:24:28 Denise

Oh well, given there were bugs in the previous version... and I think you are a Pro user... this might be, this... might resolve any of the problems you might have experienced.

1:24:38 Peter

Well, I was going to say it's really cool that, you know, the Braille displays and things that work with those Braille displays are still part of the updates, because it's very much anecdotal, I'll admit. But there's a lot of people that do use Braille displays with their smart devices, be they laptops, computers or... tablets or phones and Android or iOS. So those Braille displays that are really, really popular, some of them are very, very good in terms of how well they pair and how compact they are as well. So a lot of advantages to them, particularly if you do like Braille. You like to actually feel the information beneath your fingers.

1:25:12 Denise

Absolutely. So let's hope they... retain that broader focus on the variety of users and their preferences in assistive devices.

1:25:22 Peter

Well, good news there from Apple. All right, Danny, thank you for that. I'll go away and do my update and I'll report back. If I've got any issues, I'll blame you.

1:25:29 Denise

Yeah. Sounds good.

1:25:32 Peter

All right. Great to catch up tonight. We'll speak again at the end of May. 

Denise

Thanks, Peter. 

That's Adjunct Professor Denise Wood from USC - one of our very, very valued and valuable contributors here on Leisure Link. 

A final reminder on this program, if you'd like to register and vote by telephone, if you're blind or have low vision, you've got all week to do it. 1800 913 993. 1800 913 993. From 8:30 to 5:30 Monday to Friday. And also up until 6:00 on Saturday the 3rd of May. But best to do it before then. I did it during the week. You ring up, you give your name, and then you give them a code. They then either send you an email or a text message, or ring you with their code, and then you ring back to vote. The email came to me within an hour or so, which is great. 

I did vote, I voted below the line. My choice probably took about 45 minutes. So if you do a little bit of preparation so you're prepared for how you're going to vote. If you vote for the lower house, the white paper... that's the green paper, I think the green paper, the lower house. You've got to fill in all the boxes depending on what seat you're in. If you do the upper house, the big white paper, you've got to do either six above the line, or if you choose to do below the line, you've got to do at least 12. So hopefully that makes it a little bit clearer. 

If you'd like to register. If you're willing to have low vision to vote by telephone 1800 913 993. Lots of people voting early, so I'm not sure what that means. I think that it might mean that it might merely be a landslide to Labor, but that's my early thoughts. More thoughts coming up next week. 

A couple of quotes before we go. [?Nominees centre] quote through Newman - often thinks things a little bit differently, which is great. Newman says... Peace - a country that's way, way, way beyond the stars. Thanks so much, Newman for yours. And also one from Devon. Devon's quote is... Failure is a possibility, but not an option. So thanks very much for Devon and Newman for their quotes. Of course, if you'd like to send a quote through, get in touch and we'd love to share it with our listeners. 

So before we go, well, a couple of weeks ago we had Brad and Wayne Kinross twins having a birthday. This week we've got Luke and Jesse Goodman having a birthday. We spoke to Nathan Pepper about the NFL league getting underway, the IPM Improvement League getting underway. Certainly, those two boys will feature greatly again this year. Happy birthday to Emily Petricola, paralympic gold medallist more than once as a cyclist. So happy birthday to you, Emily. And Hannah Dodd, one of our mighty fine Gliders, our wheelchair women's basketball team, also having a birthday. 

That's it for the program. Sam, Richard, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. If you're listening through 1197 AM in Adelaide, you know what to do. Stay tuned because Vicki Cousins is coming up very soon with Australian Geographic - the program no one misses. Be kind to yourselves. Be thoughtful and look out for others. All being well, let's look back at the same time next week. On Vision Australia Radio and the Reading Radio Network, this is Leisure Link.