Running, riding, playing, breathing, speaking, using tech

00:06 Emily

Hi, I'm Em Petricola OAM two time Paralympic gold medallist. And you're listening to leisure link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

Peter

It's just gone 5:00. A very happy New Year as we channel a bit of pilot in January. Peter Greco saying great to be here for leisure. Link here on Vision Australia Radio, 1197 AM in Adelaide, online at VA Radio, through the TuneIn radio app or the Community Radio Plus app. Look for Vision Australia, Radio Adelaide your favourite podcast or streaming service via Radio Digital in Adelaide and Darwin will also find us - and of course our friends listening through 103.9 Hope FM Esperance in Western Australia. Happy New Year to you. And thanks to the wonderful people at Disability Media Australia, you can also catch our podcast there, Powerd Media - p o w e r d dot media. 

Wonderful to be here. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. If you've had a holiday, hope you enjoyed it. If you worked right through. Thanks so much for doing that as well. Coming up on the program we're speaking to Emily Petricola OAM about winning gold in France, following up from winning gold in Tokyo. We'll catch up with Ben Wilson who's been running fantastically well at pro running races at the Bay chef and also in Victoria. We'll catch up with the speaker of the parliament in South Australia, Leon Bignell. He had a crack at playing blind cricket. How did that go? We'll catch up with Alison Davies from alisondavies.com.au - New Years resolution keeping your voice healthy. I'll be listening in intently to that. So catch up with Rebecca Keeley, who's a speech pathologist. If you have a child who's on the waiting list to see a... speech pathologist. Easy to say. 

We have got some really good news for you. Some things you can do at home by simply using an app. Rebecca will have those details. Also, catch up with Reeva Brice with our regular yoga segment. And think about being regular. Professor Denise Wood from USC will be here. Adjunct professor. All the latest news in the era of technology and accessibility. Well, Emily Petricola I am won gold in Tokyo and a couple of silver medals. That was fantastic. But to follow up with gold in Paris is another thing. Emily's on the line and great to catch up. I know it's a little while ago, but congratulations. Well, happy 2025.

02:47 Emily

Thanks. Happy New Year to you as well.

02:49 Peter

What do you think of Paris now? It's a little while ago. It seemed like a bit of a distant memory. Can you kind of still bask in the glory?

02:56 Emily

I think so. It definitely feels like a long time ago now. A lot of lot of water has gone under the bridge and there's been a big rehab off the back of it. So I certainly feel close enough that, you know, I'm still sort of in the recovery phase, but far enough now that I can appreciate it and feel proud of what I was able to achieve there.

03:16 Peter

You're only a young woman at the moment, but I guess then maybe 30, 40, 50 years time, you're probably going to look up, look back on even more fondly. Do you think? I mean, do you think that's kind of the thing that happens when you speak, when you speak to the old athletes?

03:28 Emily

Yeah, I think that when, um, when I actually come to retire, I think that's when you sort of sit back and look at all of the things that you've achieved in your career and feel satisfied, I guess. I think when you're in it, it's pretty hard to feel like that. But as I say, like I've had a fair chunk of time off just because of like I've been necessary off the back of everything that happened in Paris. So I've had a bit of a bit of a chance to sort of think about it and be a bit pragmatic and appreciate what I was able to achieve. So I feel I feel proud of it. And but I also won't focus too much on it until I hang up the bike completely.

04:07 Peter

The title elite athlete, that's what... that's the difference between people like you and people like me. I'd still be asking about it. Hey, Emily. You won gold and two silvers in Tokyo. That was a mighty effort. But I guess that the mark of an athlete, I always think, is kind of longevity in a sport. And to be able to sort of butter up, you know, or three years later, as it was with Tokyo to Paris, that kind of... you know, sort of puts an exclamation mark on a career.

04:33 Emily

Well, I mean, hopefully not just an exclamation mark on my career, but it definitely was satisfying to be able to back up and win again, because I think people take for granted that you can always be the best. People don't understand how hard it is. It's almost easy to get to be the best once, but to continue to be the best in the world is actually really challenging in ways that people who haven't done it could never imagine. You've got to really sacrifice a huge amount of yourself, and you go into it knowing how much sacrifice goes into maintaining that standard and improving that standard every year. So to be able to back up and win in Paris was special for so many different reasons.

05:16 Peter

And of course, another thing is that, you know, so much can go wrong. I mean, you can have the perfect preparation or, you know, different hiccups along the way, but I guess it's a how you recover from them and then b how you're kind of rectifying who that might have gone wrong in that preparation.

05:30 Emily

Absolutely. Like for me, I had a meeting today actually with my... the team that I'll be working with moving forward. And I think that physically or physiologically, I've never been fitter than I was for Paris. But physically I was the most compromised I've ever been for an international competition. And so that's a different challenge when you know that physiologically you're in the best shape of your career, but physically and functionally your body's not doing anything it's supposed to be able to do. So sorry, that was... I'm actually so much more proud of the result that I was able to get in Paris than any other one I've achieved in my career. 

Not because it was, you know, the Paralympic gold medal and it was, you know, defending something. It was more around my emotional resilience to be able to get on that start line, not knowing what was going to happen on that day and having everything that could go wrong, go wrong in the preparation from a functionality point of view and still get the job done. Like, I feel really proud of that. So yeah, it was really it was a it was an awfully hard last six months, and I would say the last three months in particular and the whole pre camp, literally everything that could go wrong did. But we still walked away with the gold medal in a world record. So I'm feeling I feel really proud of myself and my team for what we were able to achieve over there.

06:46 Peter

And when you're trying to ride a bike really fast, those sort of things all add up, don't they?

06:51 Emily

No one, except for the people who worked through that stuff with me on a physical level, like the medical staff that we had in place, you know, before I left. And then whilst I was away, they're the only people who really have any idea of what my specialist back here who was having to deal with emergency phone calls and, you know, emails coming in all, all day and all night playing into competition about how we could potentially do something to try and settle stuff down. They're the only people who really have any idea about how hard that was and the challenges that were put forward by my body. You know, we you can't really complain about it when that's the reason that you're there. 

But, gosh, you know, you always hope that you can get through and just be able to compete fairly on a fairly level playing field. And just this was not it this time for me. And but we still, as I say, we still walked away with the gold medal and a world record despite all of that. So it's like it's a huge credit to, you know, not just me, I would say far more so the people who have had to manage me through that period.

07:51 Peter

I mean, this is the most utterly respectful way, were the times when you thought, I've got a gold, I've got a couple of silver from Tokyo. I can kind of give, give it away, or I can kind of go on the back burner.

08:03 Emily

Well, two years ago, my specialist had a really serious conversation with me in terms of the rate of progression with the disease for me and the fact that we'd moved from we're looking more at a secondary progressive disease rather than relapsing, remitting. And at that point, I asked the question about whether or not I should retire, because I will never like as much as I love racing my bike and riding my bike really fast, I would never prioritise that, or any gold medal or any medal ahead of my health, my long term health. So I definitely did think about it. 

And in those last, you know, three months leading in, I was like, Oh my gosh, did I make the wrong decision? Should I have been to it? But I definitely feel like, you know, it was the right thing to move forward. I wasn't doing any more damage by continuing to go through with the racing. rising, and clearly I was still able to do what I needed to do to get the result. For the people who put in a huge amount of work around me. You know, I don't really do this. I don't win medals for myself. I do it to try and honour the work of everyone else around me. I like being fast on my bike and that I really like, you know, following plans that other people put in place. That's really all I do.

09:12 Peter

And that resilience - emotional, physical and psychological - you know, I guess that again, that's what kind of sets you apart from others.

09:20 S1

Well, I think this is one of the things that people underestimate about someone who has who has a disease like MS. It's so challenging on a day-to-day basis that you're forever having to be flexible with your mindset around what you can and can't do. And it's not. It's never easy for any elite athlete to have to change a plan. But when I've always been someone who if I commit to something, I'm doing it. And if it's in the plan, I'll do it. Whereas in the last, I would say one of the strengths that I've developed and I've had to learn this skill is to know when to pull back and when to push forward. So, you know, like that's that resilience has come from lots and lots and lots of practice of not everything going the right way at the right time. 

But I would say what happened in Paris and the lead into Paris was on a different level to what I've experienced before. And I feel really, as I say, I just feel lucky that, you know, I had the team around me that I did, but also beyond that, I walked into that velodrome on that day. I saw my brother with his kids come in, and one of my best mates was there with one of her daughters. As soon as I saw those guys there, I didn't even care what the result was because for me, it was about being able to just do my best in front of those people who don't care whether they want me to win a gold medal because they want that for me. They think I deserve that. But it was more about they that they care about me as a human rather than me as a gold medal winning athlete.

10:45 Peter

That's powerful, isn't it? That's powerful. And I guess in a sense, you know, getting to the start line was more important than finishing.

10:52 Emily

I was always going to finish. It was where I finished. That's probably how well I finished and whether or not I could walk at the end of it. Uh, you know, like I paid a big as I say, I've paid a really big toll for what I did in Paris. So. And they've definitely been moments since then that I've questioned whether or not it was worth it. But I would say definitely in the five minutes at the end of, you know, the half an hour after I won the IP, it was definitely worth it for those. For that 30 minutes, it was 100% worth it.

11:17 Peter

Listening to Leisure Link here on Vision Australia Radio, radio 1197 AM in Adelaide and across the Australia Radio Network. And we're speaking to Emily Petricola, two time gold medallist and a couple of Paralympic silvers, to beat Emily Petricola OAM. And... the MS... it kind of doesn't follow... I mean it's different for everyone isn't it. It's different for different people who have got it. So I guess that's kind of good in a sense, but bad in a sense in terms of the team that you're dealing with. I mean, you talked about your specialist in... Australia, kind of... you know, being up all hours trying to to work out what to go on. It's kind of, you know, it's kind of not... an easy thing to to sort of analyse, you know, individual from individual.

11:59 Emily

It's really different for anyone... it's like most, you know, I mean, very few people who have cancer, for instance, are like, No, there's no one roadmap that works for everyone. And MS is much the same. It can be aggressive, it can be far less aggressive with other people. I'm unlucky in that it's always been fairly aggressive with me. We've had some pretty good periods where treatments have worked really effectively and other periods where it was less so. 

So, you know, you've got to really surround yourself with good people and good luck in when you're in a sporting environment like I am, I'm lucky that I work with some of, you know, the best of the best when it comes to sport, and my specialist Neil [?Shuey] in Melbourne, he's also been really exceptional in terms of being incredibly supportive of what I'm doing. So yeah, like I'm saying, I've been lucky in my time in terms of the people that I've had around me helping me manage.

12:55 Peter

Because the medical profession generally and kind of understandably and probably to their credit and to our benefit, are kind of conservative, aren't they, with their approaches. I mean, they're going to put your health over winning a gold medal each and every time. But by the same token, I guess if you're working with the team that you're working with, maybe they're a bit more understanding or empathetic to your want to get out there and compete.

13:15 Emily

Absolutely. It's really interesting. My specialist, I mean, when we had that conversation back in 2022 and I asked whether or not I should retire, and he said no, because, you know, one thing that they do know is that exercise positive impact on people with MS, especially secondary progressive disease, they don't know much about secondary progressive disease, but they know that exercise is something that helps to control the level of degeneration within the body. So and disease progression. So he encouraged he said, you know, there's no there's no... group data set of people with MS trying to be elite athletes at the level at which I'm doing this. They don't have, you know, data on that. 

But, you know, exercise is positive. As long as I'm smart and listen to my body and do the best that I can to manage, like the fatigue and everything else that comes along with that. And, you know, some of the muscular stuff that happens off the back of it. Then he couldn't see any reason for me to have to retire at this point, and certainly not because of the disease.

14:17 Peter

What about the complementary side of things? I'm thinking about diet supplements, you know, massage, ice baths, all the sort of things that, you know, that... the kind of one percenters that people talk about.

14:27 S1

Yeah. The things that are most important for me in terms of recovery are, I can't go near an ice bath that has a really negative impact on my body from an MS perspective. Actually, it got really cold is the same as really hot. Okay. Impact on my body. So for me, the things that work the best: I have compression boots, recovery boots that I use on a regular basis. I have massage when I'm going, when I'm being really smart and really focused properly on my recovery. I have massage each week and physio at least, you know, an hour a week, sometimes twice a week, just depending on how severe. 

And I mean the leading... obviously for the games it was daily, sometimes twice or three times a day whilst we were in camp because my body was just doing so many strange things. So for me, the sensory stuff is has a really big impact, more so than anything else.

15:21 Peter

God, careful with that.

15:22 Emily

Yeah, yeah I have I mean... cycling you generally need to be mindful of making sure you, you know, your weights are sort of an optimal level anyway for power to weight. But for me, it's actually about fueling around training and making sure that I'm getting enough of the of the right nutrients at the right time to maximise my physical response and my physical recovery, from that perspective, has a really big impact.

15:49 Peter

You talked about feeling, in a sense, more satisfied about Paris than you... of course, you're able to compare in terms of we talked about family and friends being in Paris. Nothing like that could happen in Tokyo because of Covid. So I guess all those sort of things maybe made Paris even more special.

16:05 Emily

Oh, without any question. One of the things that separated the two events was the fact that you got to have people there and, you know, going to Tokyo was super exciting, but it was also super stressful, not just because it was a Paralympic Games, but because you were so worried every day when you did your test that it was going to come back positive and that was going before you even had a chance to race. So it was a really different feeling this time. 

Overall, I would say for me, the reason why Paris was special was number one, because I had my people in the stands that day when I One, but also because I took a lot of pressure off myself in terms of whatever happens, happens. I've done everything that I possibly can do. I put myself give myself every opportunity to put out the best performance. And, you know, if my body wasn't able to do that on the day, there was nothing more I could have done than what I did. Whereas with With Tokyo, I think I felt a lot more pressure because everything had been relatively seamless in coming in into that event. It... wasn't the same.

Like, I feel like this entire cycle, the three years pretty much from 2022 onwards, has been me battling my body a lot... and we just never quite got on top of it. And then it all blew up at the wrong moment, you know which? It could have just lasted six more months before it decided to throw it at me, but I think that has set me up better for this coming cycle as a result.

17:32 Peter

Now, I hope to speak to you many more times in the future. But what about the coming cycle then? So you're... obviously going on.

17:37 Emily

I'm continuing what I've said to everyone that I'm working with. I had a meeting with, you know, the key players. I'm a physiologist and one of my coaches, Harry, when I first got back to say, Do we think, number one, I can continue to improve? Because if we don't, then there's for me, I'm not interested because you have to give up so much to do this. And if so, if we do think that I can continue to improve and we haven't, you know, mind every bit of everything out of me yet, then I think I'll commit to two years and see how I go physically over the next two years from an MS perspective. 

And because, you know, they've changed the... a couple of the track events now. So the shoot's gone to four kilometres and the 500m time trial is now going out to a kilometre. So that's like a really big change for the track program. It's a new challenge. So I'd really like to try those things. And I want to try and be really great in the road time trial again. So, you know, I've got a bit to prove still over these next two years. And then if, if we get to the end of the... two years. And number one, I'm physically in a really good spot. And number two, if I'm still really competitive and we think that I'm a good chance to, you know, go again and have more success, then we'll go through for the entirety of the cycle and then hang it up at LA. But we've got to get through this first two years to see see what happens.

18:55 Peter

And it's been really great talking to you. Thank you so, so much. We put in a request pretty early on. You were recovering and we certainly respected that. And we're certainly very grateful for making some time for us today. I should point out that the Mighty Swim is coming up next month, which is helping raise funds and awareness for MS, so hopefully people can help out as far as that goes. Congratulations again. It's a wonderful achievement - and... there are a few more chapters to be written in your story yet, Emily.

19:20 Emily

Let's hope.

19:21 Peter

Thanks, to you. Emily Petricola. I am there... what a what an incredible story, and certainly a wonderful insight into the mind and body of an elite athlete. 

While most of us were relaxing or having a good time over the Christmas New Year period, Ben Wilson was tearing up the track, winning events all over the place. Ben, great to catch up with you and thank you for your time.

19:43 Ben

Hello. Thanks for having me.

19:44 Peter

Congratulations. It's been a pretty good... sort of festive season for you on the track.

19:49 Ben

Yeah, it has. It's been a good... last couple of weeks. I can't complain at all just about it.

19:53 Peter

So you're into pro running, which I guess is a little bit different to the running that a lot of us might kind of associate with the Olympics and Paralympics.

20:00 Ben

Yeah, it is a bit different. So I run with the South Australian Athletic League. So it's... you all run off sort of a handicap over whatever distance... so it's meant to be more of an even race. It's aimed for everyone to go over the line at the same time. So... I love running there and get so much enjoyment out of it and yeah, it's awesome. 

Peter

How did you get into it? 

Ben

Oh, so I did do a bit of running for umpiring, and then my dad sort of got me into competing through the Athletic League. I've been running with them for three years now, I reckon, and had a had a few wins throughout the time. But yeah, the last few weeks have definitely been my... two biggest ones. 

20:39 Peter

Now, your Dad was a runner himself, wasn't he? And also... an umpire for the, umpire?

20:44 Ben

Yeah, yeah, he was. He did, for Android League games, Steven Wilson, and then he had his fair share of wins with the Athletic League as well. So he was... quite a good runner.

20:56 Peter

Yeah. What's it like umpiring, Ben? Is it more fun running than... umpiring?

21:01 Ben

Oh, I... think I... enjoy... competing a bit more, but nonetheless.

21:07 Peter

As you said in pro running, you're off a handicap. So... you might want to explain that a bit. And I guess, how does that sort of impact upon your tactics when you go into a race?

21:16 Ben

I don't really go into races with too many tactics as as such. I just, you know, go out there. Most important thing, do you enjoy? I more just go out there and run and give it my best and yeah.

21:28 Peter

So for example it's, at the base... if you won the 550... so the event is over 550m. But depending on I guess on your form, you get to run off a different mark. So you might be say... well scratch is the furthest back isn't it? Then you get allocated X amount of metres in front of that.

21:46 Ben

Yeah that's right off the bay Sheffield I was off 56 I think it was. So running the 494m. So yeah it was about, I think the back markers were off about the 25, 30. So yeah. And then it ranges all the way up to 100 or whatever the front mark is.

22:05 Peter

So they say don't put much in the tactics, but if you put a fair bit in it because you've got to kind of work out where everyone is compared to you and how you're going, or do you just go flat chat and want to get to the line first?

22:15 Ben

I mean, I guess you do have to put a little bit of tactics in. So judging your race and, you know, going out at a good pace and having a little bit left to kick it home up the home straight or whatever, but I'll just go out there and run and give it my all and whatever happens, happens. 

22:30 Peter

Really? 

Ben

Yeah. 

Peter

And what about as far as... the... event at the ICF goes? It was pretty special for you.

22:35 Ben

Yeah, it was it was, 22... years ago that my dad won it that day. So, yeah, definitely had a special place, it definitely meant a lot. He ran up to me after the race and gave me a big hug and had so much support. The family, friends. So, our coach as well, everyone at McKinnon are on the McKinnon parade. So, yeah, I definitely wouldn't have been up there if it wasn't for all their support.

22:57 Peter

Who's your coach?

22:58 Ben

I run for Micky Butler.

22:59 Peter

Okay. Of course, for a lot of people would know, particularly if you're in the Glenelg area over the... or Christmas New Year period. It's a huge event at the Collie Reserve, isn't it? Thousands of people get there. It's... you know, sort of wall-to-wall racing and a great atmosphere. 

23:14 Ben

Yeah. It is. It's a huge event. There's so many people down there. It goes over the two day period. Yeah. It's great. Great to see so many people come down and support. And yeah, it's a great atmosphere, that's for sure.

23:24 Peter

Ben, a little bit of a tongue-in-cheek question: so do you have to be a little bit disciplined Christmas Day when you're running a couple of days later in an event like this?

23:31 Ben

Oh, it didn't it didn't stop me eating all the chocolate and whatever.

23:37 Peter

What about New Year's Eve? Were you disciplined that night?

23:40 Ben

Oh, not so much. No. I... well, I travelled over the day before, I travelled. No. When did I travel? I travelled over New Year's Eve and again on New Year's Day at Maryborough. So, yeah, I still I still struggle with the goodies with me.

23:56 Peter

Are you defending champion at Maryborough?

23:57 Ben

Yeah. Yeah that's right. I went over there and, oh, was it 2024 New Year's Day and then 2025 this year. So I have to be, I'd have to be back for the three-peat next year.

24:07 Peter

Yeah. So three in a row would be fantastic. The running hat trick. Now of course, one of the major events in Australia throughout the pro running season is the Stawell Gift. Have you ever been to Stawell?

24:18 Ben

No, I haven't.

24:19 Peter

Is that something you'd like to maybe sample? Shall we check it out?

24:23 Ben

Yeah, that's the plan. Just keep myself. Keep myself fit and now, I'm saying hit the track trying hard from now, between now and then. And yeah, give it my best over there. That's the plan was I was hoping to go over there last year, but didn't get around to it. So I'll definitely get over there this year and yeah, give it a crack.

24:39 Peter

Have you said you ran in the 550 at the Bay, chef? Why that particular distance? Because of course that the, I think the sprint is like 70m and the gift is 120m, so there's all different distances. What was the kind of 550 for you?

24:53 Ben

I think it comes down to umpiring as well. I've got a little bit of strength behind me from that, and then I've got the speed, so it just sort of works out well. I can sort of put them both together and get out there and run the 1 or 2 laps and yeah, get it done. Yeah.

25:07 Peter

Now you also do some printing work away from the track. You want to share a bit of that with us?

25:11 Ben

Yeah. I also work for the Reject Shop. And then I do disability support working as well for a company called Walk and Talk Therapy.

25:19 Peter

Cool name for a company, isn't it? Walk and Talk Therapy?

25:21 Ben

Yeah it is. But for a good mate of mine, Josh. So yeah. He's awesome. 

25:26 Peter

How did you get into that?

25:27 Ben

Through my managers. My manager at the Reject Shop. Her boss's brother. So that's who... Josh is. And, I was sort of set up with him, and yeah, I've only been with him for a few months now, but, yeah, he's been awesome for me, and he's helped me out along the way so I couldn't thank him enough.

25:46 Peter

I'm assuming it's probably tough work, but at the same time, like, very rewarding as well.

25:50 Ben

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You can have your... tough days, but, yeah, it's... really rewarding. So yeah, I get a lot out of it. 

26:00 Peter

Does it give you a bit of a different perspective on running as well? Maybe if you don't run so well, or even if you don't train so well, you might go home and think, Oh yeah, it hasn't been my day today. But you know, when you work in the area that you do, you kind of appreciate the things that you do have. Does it kind of have that effect on you as well?

26:15 Ben

Yeah it does. Well, I guess you're always going to have your... off day. You're not going to go out there and run a great race every day. But there's always, you know, something to come home to and look forward to. And there's always something else to put a smile on your face, I guess.

26:28 Peter

Yeah, that smile on your face. I mean, this Pro running, it's called Pro because it's professional. So there's a little bit of prize money at the end of some of these events if you sort of come out on top.

26:38 Ben

Yeah. There is. There's a prize money for making it into the final. So it's, oh generally there's eight in the final. So it's paid all the way down to eighth place which is good.

26:45 Peter

Nice little reverb or nice little... sort of, little bit of incentive, if you like. I mean, obviously you're running for the fun of it, but I guess it's a nice little bit of... extra pocket money, if I can call it that.

26:56 Ben

Yeah, definitely. It's something to look forward to, I guess if you make a final and then I'm not really out there for the money, I'm more out there for the joy, enjoyment of it and being out there with so many great people. But yeah, it's just a bonus.

27:08 Peter

Terrific. Well, Ben, it's been great to meet you. Congratulations on your on all you've done, particularly over the last month or so. As you say, it's been a, a fantastic, uh, late 2024, early 25. Hope you get to go to school. And who knows maybe win over there as well. That'll be pretty cool. And also, congratulations for the great work that you do away from the track, as well as that walk and talk therapy. Got a website?

27:29 Ben

I think it's still in the process of process of being made.

27:32 Peter

We'll chase that up. Maybe you posted as far as our show notes go. Ben, congratulations again and thank you so much for talking to us. I've really enjoyed it.

27:39 Ben

No worries. Thanks for having me on.

27:41 Peter

That's Ben Wilson there, distance runner extraordinaire in the Pro ranks for the South Australian Athletics League, doing a wonderful things over Christmas and New Year, doing all sorts of great work for an organisation called Walk and Talk Therapy. On the Vision Australia Network through your favorite podcast service on 1197 AM in Adelaide, you're listening to Leisure Link. 

Well, a big day for our cricketers for the national Cricket Inclusion Carnival at the Adelaide Oval. The blind cricket team played the Members of Parliament, including guest speaker Leon Bender, who was on the line. Leon, thanks for thanks for your time and welcome. 

28:22 Leon

Thank you very much, Peter. An absolute pleasure to be with you and your audience today.

28:25 Peter

How was the day?

28:26 Leon

It was amazing. It was one of the great days in my life. I mean, what a great bunch of people that we played cricket with. Well, as they might have said during Bodyline, there was only one team out there playing cricket, and that was... with us. We were comprehensively thrashed. We were hopeless. But it's such a hard game, you know, to try and bowl along the along the deck. And then, I reckon even harder is trying to, you know, hit the ball when it's just coming along, along the ground at the... it was such a challenging day, but such a great day. And we all just loved it. Everyone who went, who turned up on both sides, I think, just had an amazing day. 

29:04 Peter

And of course a fabulous setting, the Adelaide Oval.

29:06 Leon

Yeah. Look, it's every kid's dream, isn't it, to get out there on the Oval. And I know talking to the players on both sides and at the presentations after the match, many of us recounted our, you know, first time we went to the Adelaide Oval with our dads or mums and, you know, some of the things that we might have experienced there over the years, whether it be cricket or football, and to get out into the middle and actually... well, I was going to say Wield the Willow, but I think that would be, in my case, maybe, maybe just sort of clotting away, you know, would be the best thing. 

But I'll tell you, a lot of the people on the blind team wield the willow, they they were 1 for 288 after 20 overs - was a T20 game. The night before, the strikers had set a record for a T20 game at the Adelaide Oval and... the blind team just walked kicked that out of the park by about, I reckon they exceeded by about 30 runs.

29:57 Peter

Yeah, Leon, it was a great day all round, wasn't it? I'm not sure for how much of the day you were there, but the... three teams that represented South Australia represent at the National Cricket Inclusion Carnival, athletes who are deaf, athletes with a disability and also the blind. They all played different teams. The deaf team played the Lord's Taverners, who have been great supporters of sport for people with disabilities, for decades. And the... team for the intellectual disability played the South Australian Police. And of course, as I said, the blind team played the South Australian Parliamentarians. So it was a great sort of promotion of the game in all sorts of areas.

30:32 Leon

Yeah, it was terrific. I think we probably need to think back there. Don't we, are they... I think they've done a good job in bringing different groups together, you know, police, politicians, Lord Taverners and of course, all the teams for people who, you know, the blind team, the intellectual disability team. And I just think they need to be recognised because, you know, they could all have been just sitting at home on that... Sunday and not doing anything. But they were there from... the CEO, and they were all out there, you know, giving up their day so that we could all have a lot of fun. 

And for the blind team, it was really important because they were off to the National. So, it was a... good, good hit out. And one of the great things of the day was, I was honoured with the... duty of handing over the caps to... the Australian members of the blind team. And that was a terrific thing. And to get to know a few of the the players as well was terrific. 

31:33 Peter

Now, Leon, you spoke about... well, shall we say your less than impressive batting performance - and I believe you got out in a rather interesting way, or to a rather interesting bowler.

31:41 Leon

Well, I was bowled by a constituent, young fellow from... Bernard Odinga. And I know his wife really well. She works in the local... health food shops. So, that was good. And he was pretty pumped. So, you know, to get a get a scalp like... mine. But, you know, cricket, you know, normal cricket. I'm a... bowler and... never much of a batsman, but I played, I reckon, the most correct innings of my life because when it's just rolling along the deck like that, all you can really do is, you know, try and block and block. Well, anyway, he was, he had a bit too much pace for me. And, it went straight through me and and bowled me. 

But I must admit, I looked up at the scoreboard and... at that stage, we needed... 30 runs an over to get there, and I just blocked for three overs and hadn't scored a run. I got a leg bye. I think the umpire was a bit kind to me and not giving me out because I got hit in my back foot, right on the toe and I reckon it probably was out, but I think he could see that they were going through our team, so he gave me another chance, I think. But yeah, I thought I'd better just try and lift the run rate anyway. I did, and it was just hopeless. It was just... straight through me. And I heard that the death rattle, you know, when the... stumps get hit by the ball with the... 

But it was just great. It was so enjoyable. And, you know, the things that you pick up on, you know, obviously the the ball with the, like, ball bearings in it that makes the noise and then the... I'm really uncoordinated. This is... what brought me undone. You'd sort of think I'd, just bowling, you'd be right. But in the nets I was bowling just from a standing start. And I should, you should probably take a few steps and then come in. But when you're uncoordinated and you've got to do 4 or 5 actions, so you have to say Ready, then take your steps. Then as you're about to bowl, you hit, you say Play and then you've got to bowl, four things at once, that just threw me. 

I bowled I think 5 or 6 wide to my over. It was just anything in a bowl of wide you're just putting it down, you know, like a like a lawn bowl. So it was very, very challenging. But but I loved it. I loved the the interaction between the bowlers and the wicket keeper, and blah blah, blah... or Michael, Michael, Michael, you know, and they'd be doing that just to get a sense of where everyone was and... of course, that makes sense when you see it and you hear that. But I hadn't thought of that before. 

33:55 Peter

You know it's actually quite interesting you mentioned that, Leon, because there are surprisingly few... players that run into each other. You've got a team who have... full of people who are blind or have low vision. But incredibly, the communication is so good that there's few sort of... Steve Waugh and Jason Gillespie clashes.

34:10 Leon

Yeah. It's incredible. I, you know, I keep forgetting - because instinctively you're fielding and you pick up the ball and you throw it back. And a couple of times I threw it to people who couldn't see. And I thought, Well, that's not that smart. What they were doing is they were rolling it along the ground to them, you know. And, I was a bit of a slow learner.

34:27 Peter

Yeah. How did the team get selected? The parliamentarians, did they, you know, you get your name drawn out of a hat or... you know, the best, you got to go?

34:35 Leon

They they did an email around, and... a lot of people were actually away, and there was a few [?songwriters], a bit harder, probably to get people. But Katrina Hillyard, who's the Sports Minister, she was our skipper, Josh Teague, who's the new deputy leader of the Liberal Party, he was there. I nicknamed him the Senator and he was quite handy in the covers there, a pretty... flashy sort of fielder. So I think he did did pretty well there. I think he was he was pretty good with the bowling, too. Pretty economical. But... I think, like me, he might have scored one. I reckon Katrina might have scored gold one or a duck, you know? Yeah. 

Nadia Clancy played. She managed to run two of her teammates out. So... they're the only two wickets she got all day. And, I think she might have got a run, I reckon, but, yeah, we had fun. We just really... and it was good for us. You know, you got people from different sides of the political spectrum all playing together. You know, the truth is we get on pretty well at Parliament House. But to get out of that Parliament and do something completely different, something challenging in a way that the, you know, different to what we normally do in our day to day job was really good. We all got a real kick out of it.

35:47 Peter

I was going to ask you which part of the game you found most challenging, but it sounds like you're an all rounder. You found it all challenging.

35:53 Leon

Yeah, yeah, I did, absolutely. I'm not going to lie, it was... even the fielding. Because the thing... that ball curves. So, you know, I'm, 58. I'm not as... fit as I once was, and, you know, and the body's a bit stiffer. I don't do a lot of physical activity these days. So the ball would be sort of coming towards me. I'd get down there in the classic sort of fielding thing, you know, where you get down on one knee and you've got your leg there so the ball can't get past you. Anyway, I got down and then the ball was actually moving away from me in like an arc. And so then I was crawling across the ground to try and get to it a bit. So we had a fair few laughs at ourselves. We didn't, none of us was there to take ourselves too seriously, you know? It was good fun.

36:38 Peter

I know in a previous life you were a journalist. Had you seen the game played before? Because it's changed a little bit over the years. The blind cricket, I mean, the game is similarly to what it was, say, 30 or 40 years ago, but the balls are a bit different. And the way that the game is played is a little bit different.

36:51 Leon

I don't reckon I have seen it. I've definitely spoken to people who played it and been involved in the game, but I don't reckon I'd seen it before. Yeah, but it was good. You know, I really, I probably enjoyed the net fishing when I first got it. I hadn't picked up a cricket bat [?Harper] in the back yard with my son when he was a young fella and a teenager, but he's 27 now, you know. So it's been a while since a pretty good ten, 15 years that I picked up a bat, even at the beach or anything. So I actually really enjoyed it. I was like, Oh, maybe I'll get down and play for the third grade or something like that. I think I got a bit of a social teen down that way. 

So, yeah, I don't know. I really enjoyed it. It was just a terrific day. It was pretty warm, but we kept our fluids up and drink plenty of water, so, yeah, it was good. It was good. And again, you know, Charlie and, Jazz and all the things down at [?Thacher], they did an amazing job to accommodate us all and and give us all a great thrill to be out there on that Adelaide Oval.

37:46 Peter

We speak quite often to... different areas of cricket. As I say, uh, the deaf cricket players with disability and the blind. And certainly over the last few years there have been enormous and indeed Cricket Australia have been supportive enormously as far as, uh, you know, funding the sport and giving opportunities. And they say the, the nationals and these sort of things, even international competition. So as far as cricket for players with different disabilities, that's come a long, long way.

Yeah, that's terrific to hear. Really, really good that they're getting behind it and supporting. And you think of the cricket bowling 58 I'm not you know ancient but it changed a lot in our lifetime hasn't it. You know with the women's game. Yeah. The disability games you know the accessibility I think even the way they approach it with the kids now, you know, I mean, they want to get them out there learning some skills. It doesn't necessarily have to be a game of cricket when you're those real young young kids, sixes and sevens. But you know, just to get them around the holding a ball and all that sort of stuff and learning a few skills, I think they do it really well at all levels.

38:45 Peter

As a cricketer, you make a very good Speaker of the House.

38:48 Leon

Instead of just getting out easily, I had, I chuck people out, you know.

38:54 Peter

Yeah, that's the easiest part I learned. I really appreciate to... It's great of you to join us and, well done to all those that took part. It's obviously a great way to raise awareness right throughout the... community about cricket. I guess we can say, yeah, cricket was the winner.

39:06 Leon

Absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

39:10 Peter

It. Leon Bignell, one of the people who took part as far as the parliamentarians went, played against the South Australian blind cricket team last week at Adelaide Oval. And well done to the SACA and all those that took part. 

It's a very Happy New Year to Alison Davies from alisondavies.com.au - and when we talk about happy, Alison being on the program makes us happy. Hearing your voice makes us happy. Ali welcome back. Great to have you with us.

39:40 Alison

And being here makes me happy.

39:43 Peter

Oh, well, it's a mutual admiration society. 

39:46 Alison

Nothing wrong with that. 

39:49 Peter

Thank you Ali. Obviously, New Year, a lot of people make New Year's resolutions... you know, give up the drink, sleep better, eat better, all that sort of stuff. What about things we can do to keep our voices healthy?

40:00 Alison

Well, I love that you're asking this, because one of the things I say a lot to people in my work is that when we were children, no one ever taught us how to look after our voice. So our voice is our actually our identity in sound. It's a foundational part of our body and who we are as people. And when we're kids, we get taught how to look after our hair and our skin and, you know, our even our bowels. You know, like, we get taught a lot of parts of our body healthy living ways, but no one teaches us what our voice is for, how to look after it, what our voice needs, how to protect it. So I think it's really important to ask this question.

And one of the major ways in which our voice can feel unhealthy is actually just when it's like dry or tired. Mm, so one of the biggest tips I have for actual health of our voice is not using it more often when it needs a break. I think this is really important. We tend to push through. Just say you've got a sore throat, you tend to go to work anyway and push through and talk and use your voice. And sometimes you don't get a choice. If you're a teacher or, you know, like a radio host. But it can actually just make our voice when our voice needs a break, it truly needs a break. 

And when we whisper, if we've got a sore throat and we whisper, we're actually drying out our voice way more because our voice box and our sound, the sound of my voice creates and allows for like moisture in our throat and in our mouth. But when we whisper, it's just air. So it dries out our throat more and it dries out our mouth. And when... your voice is like tired or dry or sore, drying it out is the last thing you want to do.

41:57 Peter

It's funny, Ali. Often when you think, when you say things to us, I think, Of course, but I didn't think of that. Like it's not Of course, until someone points it out to you and you've just done that with the with the whispering thing, cause that's kind of a, Well, maybe an unnatural thing to do on my voice is... not at its best. I'll, you know, I'll whisper, but as you pointed out, it's probably the worst thing you can do.

42:19 Alison

Yeah. And, you know, if you do go for a day whispering because you have to. it's not the end of the world. And it's not like we're not caring for our voices. If we do these things, however, it's good to just be aware that that is the way of it. So if if we have the potential to just have a quiet day, if we're at home or if we're somewhere where we just cancel some social events so that we can rest our voice, they're really smart, you know, choices to make, to protect our voice and just to keep it healthy. 

Also like drinking, if you've got a dry sore throat, having sips of something syrupy like even a bit of cordial or a tonic or something that's thick, like with honey in it, or something that will coat our our throat, that then will protect it. Like then if we're whispering or talking, our throat is coated a little bit with something that's going to keep it like from drying out as much. So sipping away on little tonics like they used to do in folklore and in the olden days... yeah, very helpful as well.

43:22 Peter

So doing that, rather than just sipping straight water, if I can put it that way. Yeah.

43:25 Alison

And like water's going to hydrate. But what is not going to like coat your throat in a way that will protect it from drying out. Yeah. That's a, they're practical tips for practical healthy voice. But I also think it's really important for the health of our voice to use it in ways that feel natural. So if we're experiencing emotions, allow our voice to express them. So allowing yourself to cry loudly or to laugh loudly or to sigh or to... you know, howl, if that's what we feel like doing. Even to yell or scream if we need to. Of course, we don't do it at people, but there are ways of using our voice that emotionally keep it healthy. 

And a lot of us have been taught that controlled use of voice or suppressed use of voice is healthiest and respectful. But that can often come at the detriment of fully using our voice to express emotions when it's safe and appropriate to do so. And I think that's also important for like, the emotional health of our voice.

44:32 Peter

I was going to say exactly that. It's kind of a holistic approach to the whole thing, isn't it? If I can use a tautology.

44:39 Alison

Yeah. And I mean, if you think of crying, crying and using, your voice goes hand in hand. Like often we silently cry. Mm. And then we don't get the full extent of releasing that emotion that's within us that's moving, that needs to move. And voice can be a really healthy way of just extending the release of stuff from inside us that's pent up, that needs to come out. People even grieve quietly. A lot of our emotions are done quietly, and adding voice to them can, in almost all cases, amplify the emotional health. 

So voice... is designed to be used in lots of ways other than talking. And so I think it's really important to remember that sort of emotional aspect of health as well as... the physical side.

45:30 Peter

Well, of course, there's a lot of evidence to prove that bottling things up isn't good for you. As you say, that sort of emotional, that psychological build up of... holding things in or keeping things together. You know, the old British Stiff Upper Lip that that is shown not to be good for you at all?

45:45 Alison

Absolutely. Because as humans, we all have emotions inside of emotion. The... Latin, like the... original word for emotion literally means energy in motion. So humans will always have emotions moving through us because they are energies. So they will come in and hopefully they will also go out. We don't want them pent up when we become fixated on our emotions and they become pent up inside us. That's when we can start to feel overwhelmed and that's when we have emotional outbursts. But, using our voice to express emotions is a way of helping them to move through us gently. And so the more we use our voice for that kind of work regularly, the less likely we probably are to have big emotional outbursts.

46:35 Peter

And as you say, doing it kind of regularly. So, you know, you don't give yourself a chance to build up. I mean, I don't want to go off too much into the long grass, as it were, but I mean, things like PTSD and all that sort of stuff, particularly, you know, with... you know, people that serve and coming back from wars and stuff like that, you know? They don't want to talk about that sort of stuff, and they're not encouraged. Then certainly in the past they... weren't encouraged to talk about that sort of thing. And we know now that that was the wrong way to kind of (quote unquote), "treat" them.

47:01 Alison

Yeah, absolutely. And and times are changing, but it can be very difficult for people who grew up in a... world of... suppression of emotions to just all of a sudden feel safe with crying or feel safe with, you know, expressing verbally their emotions. So it's not like I don't want anyone to feel like if you're not using your voice to express your emotion, then you're doing it wrong. It's just something that becomes easier over time, and it's okay if you are loud when you use it. When you express yourself.

47:36 Peter

And as you say, you know in the appropriate settings, it's probably going to be even more beneficial if you're, you know, certainly more beneficial than if you hold it in.

47:44 Alison

Yeah, absolutely. And it's okay to do people do things like scream underwater or scream into a pillow, or go out into the bush or out into the farm or something where there's no one around and yell or cry loudly when they're in the shower or when there's no one else around. So all of those things aren't a sign that you're unhinged. All of those things are a sign that you are regulating yourself, and that's all really important for your health.

48:11 Peter

Ali, what a wonderful start to the year. That's going to be pretty hard to top. But I'm knowing you, I know you'll do it, but that that is great. Now people can get a lot more information about the amazing work that you do. Alison Davies dot com dot AU. You're on all the social media channels as well, so people can check out the great work that you put out there. I look forward to catching up with you next month.

48:31 Alison

Yep, let's do it. Looking forward to it. Thanks, Peter.

48:34 Peter

Okay Alison. Alison Davies dot com dot AU. All that information up with our show notes.

48:43 Gemma

Hi, I'm Gemma Finlayson, a silver medalist in bocce in the Paris Paralympic Games... and you're listening to Leisure Link with Peter Greco on the Vision Australia Radio network.

48:54 Peter

Well, if you have a child who is looking for a speech therapist, I'm sure you'd be well aware of how long the wait list can be. Rebecca Keeley is doing something about it. Rebecca's on the line. Rebecca, lovely to meet you. Thank you for your time.

49:05 Rebecca

Thank you for having me.

49:07 Peter

Tell us a bit about this. So you've obviously seen an issue and think, Well, I can maybe kind of do something to to fill in a bit of a gap at the moment.

49:15 Rebecca

Yeah. So I worked as a speech pathologist for nearly a decade across rural and remote parts of the country. And during my time, it just felt like the waitlists were getting longer, not shorter. And eventually I got a little bit fed up. So I figured I'd go and build the tools that I'd wish I'd had in my job.

49:33 Peter

Okay, now... it could be up to four years. Is that right? Waiting time.

49:37 Rebecca

Yeah, yeah. So we've had families we've spoken to that live in certain parts of the country. Like, for example, we had one family that we spoke to in the Murrumbidgee region of rural New South Wales, and she had three boys, all on the NDIS, and one of her children waited nearly five years to get in and see someone.

49:55 Peter

Now, I've been to this program for a while, Rebecca, and people often talk about early intervention is critical in kind of any area when you talk about disability. So I mean, speech pathology is obviously no different.

50:05 Rebecca

Exactly. I think it's it's well documented and well researched that it's important we get to kids at the earliest point that we can. But if you think that we need to usually get to children before they start school, but if you're going to wait five years to even get in, we almost need to refer kids at birth, which is just not possible.

50:23 Peter

Yeah, and I guess it's the old story about, you know, you don't get that chance back again. That time is gone and gone forever.

50:31 Rebecca

You really don't. And it's such a loss for not only the child and their family, but also, I think, society as a whole, because these kids end up with really long-term challenges that can can take a really long time for the system to... try and fix as they get older.

50:46 Peter

Now we'll get to what you've done about it in a second, but I guess it's things like, you know, when they get to school or, you know, kindy childcare, etc. you know, things like bullying, that sort of thing can kind of come into play. So these are kind of... things that, you know, just add to the whole stress of the situation.

51:01 Rebecca

Yeah. And I think, it's really challenging for the families who are out there trying to find somewhere to go. And they're doing everything that they can and they're doing everything right. And also on the flip side, I think the speech pathologists on the ground are also doing everything right. Don't want wait lists. They hate putting families on wait lists. I would know I was exactly the same, but there's just not enough of us to fill the demand of how many children in Australia need this communication support.

51:29 Peter

And we will get to what you've done about it, Rebecca. But that's another issue in itself, isn't it? I guess the... stress and the impact on the lives of speech pathologists. I guess if they're not being able to function, you know, to their... 100%, if there's such a term, turn. Then, you know, the wait list gets longer because speech pathologists are maybe not working to the capacity that they could, 100%.

51:49 Rebecca

I think we saw really significant burnout across particularly rural and remote clinicians, because you kind of live in the middle of nowhere because you're out there to help these families and you deeply care about your communities. But when the wait lists are getting to two, three, four years long, and you know that you can head back to the city and maybe have a little bit more of a manageable caseload. It's really hard to to convince people to remain out in these rural areas, even though they're such wonderful places to work hard.

52:19 Peter

To get them out there in the first place. And then if that's the sort of (quote unquote) "reception" they get, then, as you say, it's not very welcoming or, you know... 

52:27 Rebecca

Not much incentive to stick around. It's really...

52:29 Petter

All right, Rebecca - so what have you done about it?

52:33 Rebecca

Well, I took this crazy risk, I guess. And... I realised that what we were doing is putting families on the waitlist, but we... weren't really giving them anything to do in that time, because we didn't have capacity, because we'd finally got to the kids that needed, you know, had waited and they were the kids that we were spending our time with. But I thought to myself, We can absolutely get families to to get moving at home? And so I felt like I knew what to do as a clinician, but I had no idea about running anything to do with tech. 

So I shipped myself off overseas and went and did a masters of Business at Oxford in the UK, and then came back to Australia with this idea of, Well, maybe if we build active solutions for families using technology, then they can start to fix the problems at home while they're waiting before they get in to see a speech path. So we have built an app. It's called Yarn Speech. And what it does is it provides three evidence-based daily activities that have been built by speech pathologists for you to help your child to get moving at home.

53:32 Peter

Fantastic. So... you said a phrase there, "evidence-based". So, I mean, a great idea, but you've got some kind of science to back this up as well.

53:41 Rebecca

100%. So we've had clinicians who fed in from all over the country about the things that are the things that work for them, the things that work for their patients. We also keep really up to date with research, and we have our own research pipeline, because what we want to do is, is build things that work and build things that help families. And... so there's a lot of research that underpins everything that we've designed, which is super exciting because a lot of the time in the app space, there's a lot of things that have been built, but they're not built by clinicians and they're not built by people who understand sort of the challenges that are faced by families. 

So we really wanted to make Yarn a little bit different to some of the things that might be out there. 

54:21 Peter

So how does that kind of work? So you've got a smart device, iOS at the moment, I think coming to Android very, very soon.

54:28 Rebecca

Yeah, coming to Android very soon, but just in the Apple App Store for now. And with your iPad or your iPhone, no matter what you use with your child, every day you log into our app and we give you three different activities. And so there'll be a game for you to play with your child that'll help you promote language. There's also a story or a nursery rhyme, which is something that we call a language stimulation activity. And what we do is we teach you kind of the ways that we as clinicians or teachers or librarians read and interact with children to show sort of the ways that you can sort of promote language learning. 

And then finally, we have what we call a daily activity. And so, you know, mums and dads out there are putting their kids in the car or it's bath time or it's something that they're already doing. And what we do is we say, look, as a speech pathologist, while you're doing that thing you're already doing, can you also add this little tip or trick here? And so we try and get families to just use the skills that we would use in the clinic, but be able to do it at home.

55:27 Peter

But bath time, could that kind of be good as well because it's a bit of a distraction or because it's kind of blended in with another activity? Is that kind of... a bit more quiet and quite easy to do?

55:38 Rebecca

Yeah, I think what we really want to do is not add homework to families, right? I think families are busy and they're running around and they're chasing little people, and it's quite exhausting. And so what we didn't want to do was build a program that makes you sit down and feel like you're doing homework with a two year old, because we both know that that won't work.

55:57 Peter

It doesn't work with the 22 or 42 or 52 year olds!

56:01 Rebecca

100%. That's not how anyone learns. It does... and so what we wanted to do was more teach you things to integrate into your own routine so that it doesn't even feel like you're doing homework, but you're actually helping your child at the same time. 

56:17 Peter

And I guess, you know, kind of builds on the relationship between the person and the child as well. It's kind of a bit of a different sort of a way of bonding.

56:26 Rebecca

It sure does. And I think, you know, I've been talking a lot about parents and running with children, but we've had grandparents who yes, we've had childcare centres that have been trying this out. So there's definitely... it's not that it needs to be a parent and that... really close relationship. It can kind of be anyone in the circle of a child who can really support their language with our program.

56:45 Peter

Yeah. I think your meter... you talked about kids from from 0 to 3. So you said often it can be pretty difficult to diagnose at zero. But I guess you're kind of saying this can kind of come into the picture, as early as you like. 

56:59 Rebecca

Yeah. Like communication is a core milestone for children. Our product doesn't necessarily have to be for those children that are a bit worried and maybe are showing signs of being late talkers or having a few little errors. What we do is we teach you how to best support your child's communication at any point. And so realistically, you could use it with a child who, if you just want to get your child going and really meet those milestones. 

But at the same time, it's definitely built, as I mentioned before, with that evidence behind us to specifically support children who maybe have a little bit later to talk than their peers. Maybe the other kids in mom's group are chatting away and yours is a little bit quieter. They're the kids and the families that we really want to get moving and help.

57:40 Peter

So great for kids, particularly in rural areas or people who are on the waiting list. What about if you're seeing a speech pathologist? Can this be kind of complementary to that in a way?

57:50 Rebecca

Yeah, we've actually got a lot of speech paths who helped us build this program, who've been referring their children, who are already in with them as the sort of homework program to do while you're at home. So what we don't do is we don't replace the clinician in regards to the assessment and that really important face to face with children who have deeply complex needs. We totally recognise that speech paths do an amazing job in that space. But what we aim to do is almost like complement them, where a special tool in their tool kit that they can use. 

And so families who are seeing a speech path can use this to just keep moving at home with something that's a lot of fun and a little bit more engaging than maybe doing a worksheet. 

58:29 Peter

So I guess to the point that we touched on earlier regarding the... stress that maybe speech pathologists might be on, and particularly in remote areas, it might actually help them as well, because perhaps when they get to see these people, they're kind of a bit more progressive than might otherwise be the case, and not so much... their workload is less, but I guess their efficacy, if you like, can be better.

58:49 Rebecca

That's exactly what we aimed to do. So it's 100% about How do we support the clinicians who are supporting these families? And what they need is a series of tools that lets them track and see how families are going. And so, [?Jan], and the way that we've built it means that if you put a family on this while they're on the wait list, when they get in to you, firstly they know what speech pathology is and how we interact with kids. So you can kind of skip all that sort of getting to... explain what we do. We can just get straight into the face-to- face stuff. But also we track how the child is going during the time, so you can see the areas that maybe they need a little bit more help in and prioritise how you help them in the clinic in that space.

59:30 Peter

That's, this is a great point, because... I've not had a child that goes through this sort of thing. But you can imagine and obviously speaking to people who might, you know, you're sort of trying to get a head around so many things. And as you say, even, Why are we here? Or How is this going to work? If you've got a little bit of a head start, if you like, with that, that's kind of going to just break the ice.

59:48 Rebecca

Exactly. And I think it's great that you haven't had any kids who've had to go through this. But 1 in 4 Australian parents are worried about the communication of their kids, which is a lot of children. And so just getting them going, getting that ball moving, making parents feel like they're they're helping their child when that's exactly what they're trying to do. We just give them the tools to be able to feel more empowered to do that.

1:00:12 Peter

Yeah, we'll let people know in a second how they can go about accessing the app. What about in terms of feedback so far? How long has it been out? And I guess you've kind of had a bit of a period where you've kind of beta tested it or... you know, before it coming to market to... fully fledged.

1:00:26 Rebecca

We sure did. So we ran our pilot program across winter last year, and so we had families from all across Australia who had late talking children who were stuck on the waitlist and didn't know what to do. And so we rolled out a little pilot version of our app with those families to get that really important feedback of what's working and what's not working. And one fun little feature we actually built in due to parent feedback was, as we know, and we're very conscious that screen time is something that we want to restrict. We don't want it forever. 

But we had one child in our pilot who really, really enjoyed one of our games. And so he was often asking to play this game and the mum said it's great. But like sometimes I want to stop him and I don't have to get out in the middle. And I said, Okay, great. And so what we built is a parental lock. And so now what happens is as a parent you can set a time limit. So maybe you can say, I only want my child to be on here for five minutes while we're doing morning tea. And so what happens is it comes up and it says, Oops, it's broken. And you can go to your Oh no, like it's broken and we can get the screen away.

But what we write is, we say we get parents to... we'll say, Please write in numbers. The number... I don't know, 72. And then they have to put in that number. But we know kids won't be able to read that to do that. And so you can keep going if you want. But at the same time, it gives you that sneaky out as a parent that maybe you're looking for.

1:01:55 Peter

Rebecca, we're going around Australia and around the world on the Vision Australia Radio network. Now everyone knows about that. So all those kids who are between 0 and 3 are really intelligent listeners to this program. They're going to they're going to twig to that and that they've got you beat. You have to find out a fix for that now.

1:02:10 Rebecca

Well, no, I'm going to have to figure out how to teach them to read and talk.

1:02:15 S2

Oh that's fantastic. Well... how can people find out more? And is this kind of, I would ask also in a second when Android's coming out, but is this kind of a finished product or is it sort of a live document and always being improved upon?

1:02:29 Rebecca

I think we're always looking to improve on our platform. But one thing that we're really adamant about is, is we're building in a sustainable way. So not only is it not just one and done, we update with evidence. So if new evidence comes out, this is the new way to help children in this space, we will change our app. And that's a big thing that we're really conscious of as our company is making sure we're always up to date with what's going on in the space, so that what we're providing is evidence-based. 

But it's also the first step in what we hope is quite a long journey. So as we mentioned, we're building in 0 to 3 at the moment. But our next plan and and we might have already started. But that's a quiet thing is building in that 3 to 5 space. And so our plan is to keep building things that kids need across Australia.

1:03:13 Peter

Where no one's listening. So no one heard that. So you say, how can people find out more? And any idea when Android might be available too?

1:03:20 Rebecca

Yeah. So if you want to download our app on the Apple App Store at the moment, Just search in the search bar Yarn Speech and we'll pop up there. Otherwise, we're on traditional social media. You can find us on Instagram at Yarn Speech or on our website at sciencefriday.com ... and we're hoping that our Android should be out in early March, so it's not too far away. Our tech guys are working incredibly hard to make sure it looks beautiful, and it all works. And it should be out soon.

1:03:50 Peter

So Yarn Speech. Y A R N speech... and yarn speech just dot com isn't it?

1:03:56 Rebecca

Just dot com.

1:03:57 S2

Rebecca, it's been a delight. Certainly sounds like you're very motivated, very inspiring. And... well, good on you for coming up with a sort of an interim fix to this... four year wait problem. I mean, I think... there might be a few other professions looking to do a similar sort of thing, but you'll go in first. That's the most important thing. Like to talk to you, and maybe we can catch up with you again in the future.

1:04:17 Rebecca

Thank you so much for having me.

1:04:18 Peter

That's... Rebecca Keeley there. The person behind the speech, speech pathologist.

Sore a problem for you, right? Well, here's something that can tide you over and hopefully make a huge difference. Well, it's great to welcome back to the program, back for 2025, after about 20 years or more. Reeva Bryce is back again. Reeva, welcome. Happy New Year. Thank you for your time.

1:04:43 Reeva

Thank you Peter, thank you for the welcome. Yeah. Already one month, it's... you know, gone almost. Not quite, but almost. So yeah. So we look to this year being, you know, a really good year. Let's hope so. Not just for us but for the world and for all. For the ups and downs that have been happening. But yeah. 

1:05:06 Peter

How would you like to start the year?

1:05:06 Reeva

I'm starting here with pranayama. Prana means life force. Yama is... breath control. But what I want to do is just talk about the lungs a little bit. That. That's where, you know, we breathe in and out. Let's just put it simply like that. So the lungs are the main organ of the respiratory system. They lie either side of the heart in the thoracic cavity, function as ventilation or breathing. It's the flow of air into and out of the lungs. Apropos for gas exchanges. Intake of oxygen and removal or removal of carbon dioxide from body cells. The main lungs means lightweight, because they float. They're two spongy cone-shaped organs and extend from the diaphragm to slightly above the clavicle or that line at the collarbone. 

Where are we? Yeah, and I gave the rib. That lung has an indentation where the heart lies. So it's about 10% smaller than the right. I found that a very interesting factor there. So that's about the lungs. And, they're almost like a butterfly shape in a way. When they come up to the clavicle bone there, they're narrower. And the same with when they go down to, I think, the fifth or sixth root, something like that. Yeah. And that narrows again a little bit there too. And the main, the biggest part, if you like, is the middle of the chest. And you feel that, you know, when you're breathing in and out. 

So let's go back to our prana breath, life and energy. Ah, interesting. Interesting. I'm going to have get tongue-tied here, here, here I think interestingly connected and prana for yoga is a single word for all three. It's a series of breathing techniques which aim at stimulating and increasing vitality in mental focus and expands consciousness. The breath acts as a bridge to our nervous system and by exploring pranayama practices, we can observe how deeply it is connected to the mind. Our breathing alters depending on our mood and psychological state. Instantly when we breathe better, we feel better. 

Now the technique. You sit comfortably. You sit on a chair. If you sit on a chair, you need your feet placed firmly on the floor and your back. You know, if you got back support there, make sure you're sitting back into the chair, or you can sit cross-legged on the floor. Then it's not quite relaxing. It could be done, but it's not really that relaxing. If you're sitting, the palms of your hands rest comfortably on your thighs, thumb and index finger lightly touching. Close your eyes and focus on your breathing. Breathing in and out through your nose. Listen to the sound of your breath and the movement of your chest as you breathe in and out. Now your sound might be quite soft, so some people might not be able to hear it after a few rounds. 

Start to breathe more fully in your incoming and outgoing breath. Do not force. What we do here is we. Do you think? Let me go back a little bit. We take our hands, the fingers. The forefinger, if you like, is sitting underneath your ribs there. If you go down to the bottom of your ribs, it's got a curve around there. So you place them there, the fingertips will come together and your thumb is just resting there as well. So when you breathe in it, feel the movement there in the diaphragm. And you just hold the breath in for a little bit and then slowly out again. 

Now you feel that movement. This might not be a lot of movement that there is. And it also relates to the abdominal area to your abdominal muscles. They move up and down with your breathing and you practice that your eyes are closed. You just practice that. Just breathing in and out through there, through that lower part of the lungs. You can do that 5 or 6 times. And then we move the hands up, up higher, and we bring the fingertips close in. For women with breasts a little bit hard, you might need to bring your hands out to the side a little bit more and just bring those hands in, resting there comfortably. 

Now we breathe in and out through this centre part, the centre part of your lungs, and you feel more movement there. You quietly breathe in. You can count your breathing in and count your holding time and count the outgoing breath if you wish. And repeat that for 5 to 6 times. And when you're finished, move the hands up... the... higher up on the chest now, and your forefinger will be very close to your clavicle bone. There. Now, this one, you might not feel movement, much movement in here. Getting that breath up there can take a while to fully get there and to get movement in there. 

Again, you start breathing in, visualising that breath going right up into the upper part of your lungs and your pores, and then slowly out and down again. It continued that for 5 or 6 times. And when you finished that, we bring it all together. It can bring your hands down. Place the left hand just down across the lower ribs there, centering the palm of the hand there, and the upper hand the right hand up on the upper part of your chest, the upper part of the lungs there that you breathe in. Breathe in. I should fully take the breath right up. And pull and hold the breath in. And then slowly out and down again. 

Count your breathing. Count the incoming breath. The holding of the time. Your breath. You might only be able to hold for three, but that's fine. And you slowly breathe out. And when you breathe out, we need to breathe out a little bit more than what we breathe in. So it's quite breathing in and out deeply. You don't mind, doesn't wander away and don't force the breath. With practice, you can increase the holding in of the breath, maybe up to five or even to seven. But you never force, it's a gradual process. 

Benefits: conscious breathing brings oxygen and energy to the cells and enhances all cellular processes. Reduces blood pressure, heart rate, emotional blocking and negativity. What does the positive outlook, ability to focus on the present moment and create harmony between breath, mind and body. And it's practice. Practice. And that's what we call we call that the three stage breathing. Learning that and then putting it all together. And you get that nice flow. And if you listen to yourself sometimes we might get upset about something might be minimal. But the more we get tense and tight, then you stop that breathing. Just bring that breathing in. 

Yeah. We might need, you know, to do it 3 or 4 times and you will feel more relaxed and stable and centred once again.

1:12:55 Peter

Alright. Thank you for that. Now, if people want to get in touch with you for some one on one, you're happy for people to contact you.

1:13:02 Reeva

Yes, on my mobile. Yeah. Call 0412 866 096.

1:13:09 Peter

Wonderful to have you back with us again for 2025. We look forward to catching up with you the last week of each month, right throughout the year. Happy New year. We'll catch up next month.

1:13:19 Reeva

We'll catch up then. Bye now everyone.

1:13:21 Peter

For our yoga expert, senior citizen of the year for Campbelltown River joins us this month. If you want to contact us for someone, on 0412 860 968. 

Over many years, we've caught up the last week of each month with the professors at Denise Wood. Adjunct Professor in - Denise Wood from USC at the moment. Today. Welcome. Happy New year. Great to have you back with us. And we're going to kick off in a sort of semi traditional way with an event that's often held in January.

1:13:55 Denise

We are indeed Peter. And Happy New Year to you and everyone that's tuned in to this broadcast. Yes. So every year, January this year from the seventh to the 10th is the Consumer Electronics Show, and we always kick off the year talking about some of the highlights from CES as it's known. This was the 58th CES, held as usual in Las Vegas Convention Center. Again, it's a huge event, 4300 exhibitors. And, you know, not surprising, the focus was on breakthrough technologies - in things like digital health, Artificial Intelligence, sustainability, gaming. Vehicle tech, of course, is emerging. And of course the big one, cyber security. 

So, but you know, again, Artificial Intelligence, the future of consumer level robots and self-driving cars and agents that are... I read one quote... that will make Siri look like an old dial-up telephone. And as usual, we have everything from the ridiculous to the practical to the really futuristic. Heuristic. So our example, they had, what they described as cues that make everyone stop and stare at these... futuristic fancy-foot... Nike and Hyper Ice recovery shoes. They apparently look a little odd at the moment, but as they heat up, they vibrate and massage your feet and ankles using built in air compression. 

And it's been trialled with Olympic athletes in Paris and promises to help athletes to recover faster from workouts, but obviously also people who have poor circulation... issues, with their muscles or joint pain or tendon problems. So... and they also apparently accommodate your foot size using the air compression system. As you can imagine, they just kind of like... the gaps, they're big and buzz loudly, so you probably wouldn't want to... be seen dead in them just yet. But, you know, it's not hard to imagine that it won't be long before they are really practical. 

We've seen that, and we talked a little bit about that, of some of the virtual glasses. Now, that started out looking really quite bizarre, and not something you'd want to wear that now looked really like trendy eyewear. So that's a... of the future. We also saw Lenovo's new ThinkBook Plus Gen 6, which is a rollable laptop, so it has a rising screen form and apparently outstanding battery life. So with the touch of a button, the display rises up, expanding from just a 14 inch screen to a towering 16.7inch, 50% increase in scrollable space. It's like having an entire second screen on your laptop. So I'm really... quite a practical solution. 

[?II] have never been quite innovative in the space. I've got, thought one of the early versions of a foldable laptop. Much like the foldable phones, it just folds into a little notebook form. So. And then of course, you've got the wacky things, but quite practical. What is a little robot cat that's like a little silicon cat that you clip on the edge of a cup or a bowl, and it blows hot air out. Now that sounds a bit bizarre, but in fact its intention is to blow on hot drinks. It's more hygienic than you blowing on someone's drink breaks and food to cool them down. Now that's all it does. 

But when you think about souls, people, even, you know, people with poor senses, sensory experiences, you know they can't sense heat or people with just, you know, intellectual disabilities who don't necessarily realize what they're burning themselves. Yeah, it's quite practical. And the same people that created that little... innovation also created something... I'm not quite sure how you pronounce it.... [?Maroon], which is a little robotic animal. It looks like a baby sloth, which you clip on your handbag or your briefcase or your backpack. And all it does is when people come within your vicinity, it turns its head like a little slow slob and stares at them. So it's really kind of cute. It's only $70. 

1:18:33 Peter

A bit wacky, but that might be like a partner magnet. It might attract people to, you know, get a conversation going.

1:18:39 Denise

Well, exactly. You know, cute little sloth. Hi, there.

1:18:43 Peter

Why not?

1:18:44 Denise

Maybe for neurodiverse people that find it... you know, sometimes difficult to strike up a conversation. It could be an interesting little, uh, creature, but also, you know, assistive technology for people that want the comfort of having a absolutely with them. Yes. Yeah. But the big one was, in fact, accessibility. It's not surprising, I guess, because as we look to an increasing power of Artificial Intelligence, it's so exciting to see the possibilities of AI being applied to accessibility. And so really, the... a lot of the tech showcased at CES 2025 was much more focussed on... 

This is no longer niche. It's actually a cornerstone of innovation... and business success, which we've talked about a lot of... in many, many of our segments before. So, we've talked about Michael Buckley, the CEO of Be My Eyes. So he was... certainly featured at CES 2025, talking about, which we talked about, I think in the last segment we did for last year around Be My Eyes and it's new partnerships with some Ray-Ban meta smart glasses. So... he was featuring that new partnership, but, really emphasising that theme that, was really evident at CES 25 that that technology is... not just around assistive technology. It's about advancing technology as a scalable business model, to bring accessibility now into the mainstream. So we've talked about that for over a decade, but it's it's really good to see that at a pace now. 

So... we talked about AI and... self-driving cars, but one that's probably closer to market is... on this new scenic audio. So as you can imagine, you know, this time of year, holiday time, we all, many of us... like to do road travel. But for many people, of course, it's inaccessible for someone who's vision impaired doesn't know what is happening with the scenery outside. So Perkins House Innovation Center has partnered with Honda to change all of that using this new technology called Scenic Auto Audio. And of course, it's using AI to provide real time audio descriptions of the landscapes, landmarks and weather conditions. 

So again, you can see how wonderful that innovation is for people with disability, but also how practical as well. You know, it means you wouldn't have to take your eyes off... you're passing a landmark you want to, you know, you instinctively want to look at it, but you know, you can't really take if you're driving, take your eyes off the road so you can see how that that accessibility solution has real world ramifications for the mainstream rivals. So so that's one to look out for. And obviously if Honda is in that space, we can expect many other others in the automotive industry to follow suit. So so that that could go mainstream very quickly, hopefully. 

Another one was... announced at CES 25 was... Aura Cast, which is a broadcast audio from Bluetooth, which is... designed to transform public spaces, will enable users to screen high quality audio to directly now to their hearing aids, earbuds or headphones to create an inclusive listening experience in venues such as theatres, lecture halls and museums. And the person that wrote about this... does use hearing aids. And he said, he attended that cast enabled event at CES, and he said he could hear even the moderators mumbling before they addressed the... it was so clear through his hearing aids. 

So that's the type of technology. And he was quick to suggest that it shouldn't replace obviously other solutions like live captioning or video displays or for us, Auslan, because obviously people engage with the content in different ways, but it's certainly something that we would hope to see in mainstream public spaces in the future. And of course, as I talk about, you know, the partnership with Be My Eyes and Ray-Ban Essilor, Luxottica nuanced audio smart glasses have were also announced, which combine hearing support with sleek, stylish eyewear using advanced beamforming technology to amplify conversations while reducing background noise, making them, you know, ideal for people in social situations who may not have hearing aids but find it difficult in a noisy environment to be able to hear the conversation. 

And of course, it's Nuance, which is industry leader in audio solutions. So I think what is exciting is that we are also now seeing some of these technologies not. And we talked before about the programmable glasses where, you know, you actually don't need a prescription glass. You can actually change the, according to your eyes just by altering the magnification to suit your eyes. So again, I think we're going to see more of these... stylish... glasses that are helping people with both vision and hearing impairments in the longer term. So that's quite exciting. 

So I think overall, there was a really clear theme that...  accessibility is going mainstream. It's no longer niche. It's no longer, you know, about a... what used to be referred to as a minority. It's all about innovation and new business models, and being able to mainstream these technologies in ways that everyone can benefit. Which, of course, is what we've always talked about, the universal design principles. So it's great to see some of those innovations now becoming mainstream at such a big event, such as CES. And as we look forward to seeing more of these innovations in subsequent CES shows in the future.

1:25:21 Peter

And we look forward to hearing much more about this sort of thing throughout the year. That's a wonderful wrap. Thank you so, so much. I think, that's not too crude, I think you picked the eyes out of it very, very well. So thanks so much for that. We'll catch up again next month.

1:25:34 Denise

Look forward to it. Thanks, Peter.

1:25:35 Peter

So, Professor from USC, Denise Wood with some incredible news regarding all that information regarding CES. How good catching up with Denise Wood. Wow, felt like you were at the conference with some of the stuff that Denise is saying. Certainly, as the old saying goes, We live in interesting times. Not just exciting, but interesting as well actually.

Just a note there from Reeva Bryce. I spoke to Reeva during the week, and she was talking about the posture that she was going to do, and Reeva said we could kind of call it aerobics as in air because of your lungs or aerobatics. And Reeva didn't mention either of those during the chat, but I thought that was rather clever during the week. So, Reeva, I've mentioned them for you. So well done to you. 

A lot of things happening at the moment. We haven't been able to synchronise our clocks and watches, as they say in the classics. The NCIC is on. We'll wrap that up next week. Also, the Ivy Bridge Championships for basketball is happening as well this week. So more about that on the program next week. And the tennis is on. And we haven't been able to get anyone as far as tennis for people with disabilities goes guys either given the times etc. so apologies about that, but we will cover it on the program next week, but certainly plenty happening as far as all that goes. And literally as we speak, the Australian of the year awards are getting underway as well, so no doubt we'll have some comments about that on the program next week and some guests. 

And as always, if there's someone that is recognised that you'd like us to get in touch with, please get in touch with us. I often say your contact, your email, your phone call, your way of getting in touch with us can turn into an interview, which can turn into a program so you can do radio magic. So if you have someone that you'd like to let us know about the fact that it's recognised over this weekend, please get in touch. [08] 8234 1197 during business hours or 1 384 746, ring Australia anytime and leave a message. 

Again, as I often say some of our interviews come with us via a very circuitous route, which is always really, really good. A couple of quotes have been sent through. This is from Raymond, who said one from Jimmy Carter's son, which amused him. It was sort of kind of said a little bit tongue in cheek. John William Jack Carter said about his father, Jim Carter, who of course lived to be 100, he said, It's amazing how much Jim squeezed into those hundred years, which is very, very true and also very, very amusing. So thanks to Raymond for sending that through. 

And then let's send through a quote just before Christmas, which we didn't get a chance to use. But limited quote is, Why is chocolate heavenly? Because God loves us a little bit cuddly... even though there's a lot of evidence to show that that is actually very, very good for us. So thank you for sending your quote through, would have been great just before Christmas. Even better just after Christmas. 

Some birthdays before we go. The amazing, the wonderful, the talented, the great loyal person that Wendy McDougall is is having a birthday. So Wendy, happy birthday to you actually happening today. So hope you're having a really great day. Also, Donna Purcell having a birthday who's had done some great work in all sorts of areas, including volunteering. Jonathan Milne having a birthday, Paralympic para archer. So happy birthday to you. Andrew Parnasala having a birthday, of course, as cafe owner and also a cyclist who represented Australia at the Athens Paralympic Games. Happy birthday to you. Laura Flynn - produced for Link for a number of years. Happy birthday to you, Laura. And Alison Parker playing wheelchair tennis. Also having a birthday. 

So that is it for the program. Sam Rickard, thanks so much for your help. Pam Green, thanks so much for yours. It's a new year, but some things stay the same. And we're very pleased about that because coming up very, very shortly, Vicky Cousins is here again for another year, another program of Australian Geographic. Reminding you that Link is available on your favorite podcast platform. If you like the program, thank you - maybe tell a friend or two your New Year's resolution. Spread a few words about LeisureLink - nice ones. 

Please be kind to yourselves. Be thoughtful and look out for others all being well. Leisure Link back at the same time next week on Vision Australia Radio. This is Leisure Link, coming to you from Kaurna land.