00:10S1
On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia Radio. I'm your host Harriet Moffat and I have two guests for you today. First, we have singer instructor Brooke Anderson talking about equipment options for single handlers. We go through some of the types of harnesses, leads, and other pieces of equipment that handlers use and why you might select a particular option. Then I'm going to be joined by Cassandra Chiu, co-founder of Canine Assistant Singapore, to talk about the work they're doing in Singapore to promote the use of and access of assistance dogs in Singapore. Cassandra and other staff from Canine Assistance recently visited Australia and caught up with our senior staff for learning and collaboration opportunities in the industry. So this interview is in acknowledgement of that visit. Cassandra is also a single user herself, so we bring a little bit of that lived experience to this conversation too.
These are two great guests and some interesting interviews coming up. So let's get started. Here's my first interview with Brooke Anderson talking equipment. Hi, Brooke, thanks for joining me on the show today.
S2
No, thanks for having me. So we are going to talk a little bit about some of the equipment that that you use or that a client will use out with their seeing IDoc. So, I'm going to start off with what is seeing IDoc standard harness like. So seeing eye dog harness that we currently issue as a standard, is a fabric sort of panel that goes from the left side of the dog to the right and on the back of the dog there, it has sort of a yellow patch that says seeing eye dogs. To give it for the identification side. It has a strap that goes around the chest of the dog. And that's a reflective panel. So it has some stitching in there. But if cars do at nighttime, their light shine on them and then it has one strap that goes under the belly side, and that's just to make sure it doesn't shift around.
In terms of the handle, the handle flips up on the left and right side of the dog. And it can be of various lengths depending on the height of the person. So it is a metal handle, with a sign on it as well that says, please do not distract me. Which again gives that identification.
02:42S1
What is included in a standard senior client pack, which is given out, I guess, during class or client training.
02:50S2
Yeah. So when a client starts training, they do get an additional equipment pack. And that's just to set the dog up, for the sort of, first little bit of working, it will cover things such as a dog bowl. They won't really appreciate if we don't give that one over. It's their most important thing. If you ask the dog, a measuring cup and dog whistle. So that's again, all feeding related. We also give two grooming brushes, so that they can be groomed regularly. A lead, a seeing eye, dog harness, a dog bed and a spare dog bed cover, so that they can be washed regularly. It also covers dog boots for clients who require them, and Nola bone, which is for enrichment so that they can chew on, and then also a tether as well. So that once they're trying to acclimatise to a house, we can sort of help them with their, with that.
03:50S1
So I think the seeing eye dog leads that are offered to clients are those double clipped ones. Why do you use those leads that have the two clips on the ends?
04:01S2
Yeah. So in terms of the dog leads that we use. So they do double up on each other. And the reason for that is once you unclip one end, it becomes one long lead. The long lead is for things such as toileting, with the dogs. Giving them more space means that they have more sort of opportunity to go on the space that you've designated, but also can be used as a makeshift tether, as well, if required. The shorter lead is when we're guiding and also walking. So it means that you have a little bit more control over the dog. Because they're not, you know, nearly a meter in front of you. They're right beside you on a shorter lead. So it just gives more options, uh, when sort of working, and toileting your dog.
04:50S1
Should you always, um. Or do you always walk work the dog with a lead as well, not just holding the harness.
04:57S2
Yeah. Correct. So we always have a lead, um, attached to the dog as well as the harness. So when the client is working, they'll hold the harness in their left hand, and the lead is just tucked under the fingers that are holding on to the hand. Or the reason that we need the lead, in this situation is because if a client gets to a cafe and needs to pay, they can drop the seeing eye dog handle and hold on to the lead. Which is a little it's not as rigid as the handle. And so it gives you a little bit more flexibility to get things such as your wallet and everything. The other reason that we need the lead, is because if we do need to take off a harness at any point, such as toileting, we have a method of still maintaining control of the dog. Uh, and we also need the lead for things such as direction, distractions. And so if the dog does become distracted, we can use the lead to support them to get past that.
05:50S1
So we talk a little bit about we spoke a bit about harnesses before. What are the other types of harnesses that are available and why might you use one over the other?
06:01S2
There are different harnesses out there now. And so what we sort of have, we have the sort of traditional lever style hand harness, um, with a lot of style handle. So some clients prefer that one. The other, that one has an easier handle removal mechanism. And so some people prefer that if they are regularly travelling in and out of smaller cars and things. So that's an option as to why someone might look at that. Leather harness also can be used for dogs that are a little bit more body sensitive. And so, the handle is designed to sit just above their back and not on their back. And so some dogs are a little bit more comfortable in that.
The other harness that we have is a unique fly one. And that one is, it has a fabric body piece and has a single bar handle. So instead of, the harness handle being sort of having two posts, it only has one single connection to the harness, that one sometimes it was originally designed as a running harness. But now people are using it for everyday harness, use ergonomic reasons, but also sometimes the hiking purposes as well.
07:23S1
Is that the one where the handle is kind of, I guess to the side, it's like vertical rather than horizontal?
07:31S2
Correct. Yeah. So that one, there's a little bit more flexibility in the length that the handle itself offers. And positioning as well. There are also with the leather handles you can get ergonomic handles which are slightly offset. And so some people find that a little bit more comfortable. And especially if there are secondary sort of conditions such as arthritis, we may explore something like that.
07:57S1
So how can you discuss the harness that is right for you with your instructor?
08:03S2
Do you usually? It's a... we do it in two ways. So it's what's right for the client and then what's also right for the dog as well. So there will be situations where the dog may be body sensitive. And so we need to ensure, for their well-being. We're issuing a harness that they're comfortable in. In the case where any harness sort of the dog is happy with, we can always explore with the client, various options. We also do have... sorry, I did miss one before the Juliet harness. And that one is sort of a combination. It's a between what our standard harness is and the leather, Swiss harness. It's yeah, sort of a hybrid of the two. And so we can also explore that option. It's about just, sort of raising it with your instructor. We can bring out various ones and have a look at sort of what might be right for you and your dog.
08:58S1
So you mentioned before in the, um, kind of class pack or the client pack, um, that some handles will use boots for their dogs. Why might some handlers use boots for the dogs? And and I guess others not.
09:11S2
Boots could be really helpful for some clients who are traveling regularly in hot weather where the path might be too hot to work the dog if they weren't using boots. Other situations where clients might use boots are, in areas where they might be asked to walk in grass that have bends. And so it can protect from, um, from them getting bends within their paws. And it can also help, sometimes in cooler environments as well. Um, where the dogs might have to sort of walk on cold patches of ice and things depending on the area that people live in, in terms of boots. It's very much a handle, a choice. Some clients, if they're not walking in the hot weather, the dogs don't require the boot.
The only thing to be aware of dog boots is that if clients are using them, that they constantly put them on them in the months that aren't summer as well, because the dogs are desensitized to them. But if we don't maintain that, then and then we're only using them once a year, then they get a, you know, they're quite shocked by putting them on. Um, once you do put them on for the first time.
10:20S1
They, they get unused to them during, during the winter months.
10:24S2
Yeah, exactly. And they're like, oh, I've done 11 months without these. What are these boots again? So we do recommend that clients still put them on during the month that, they don't require them just to keep up that training.
10:35S1
And I suppose in that type of thing, it's just kind of putting them on, having a bit of a party, walking around a bit and then making it positive.
10:42S2
Exactly. Yeah. So it's, it can be just doing their regular out in dog boots so it doesn't have to be hot for them to wear them, during the winter months. And it can just be, you know, doing a walk around the house as well. So, yeah, it can be, whatever sort of works for the client.
11:00S1
So another kind of piece of equipment that I have heard asked about a little bit is, um, for some of those travellers, some of those handlers that are on the go and they are travelling, would you recommend something like a travel mat for a dog to lie on?
11:14S2
Yeah. So people are travelling regularly. There are travel mats, um, that fold up pretty small. Um, some of them also have sort of a handle that you can put over a shoulder or put over luggage and things like that, which make, um, pretty handy. They can be helpful when travelling because it gives the dog a very set location that you want them to lie. And so in new areas, it's a known sort of behaviour that they are aware of to do. So if you say bed, you've, you know, found one, they can take themselves off to it. You can also leave them there. And often they feel pretty safe and secure on their beds. The other reason you can use a travel mat, is some people use them when on the planes instead of the sort of absorbent mats that they give you. And it can mean that they don't move around as much as well. So various options that people can sort of explore.
12:06S1
Do you have any that you have kind of encountered that you would recommend over others?
12:10S3
No. They're all sort of serves the same purpose.
12:12S2
So I think it's more just looking at one that works for you. Some roll up, some zip up. I think it's just around what type of travel you do and where it's going to be the least inconvenient in terms of space. And then if you do need things like a handle to ensure that, you know, it can just go over your shoulder. Just taking into consideration things, that might make your life easier.
12:35S1
Are there any other pieces of equipment to consider as a handler?
12:40S2
In terms of equipment, um, some clients that regularly travel at night time, I'd often recommend looking into putting a light either on themselves, on their backpack, or at least the dog. Just to give a little bit of visibility to the team. That can sometimes, clients have a second collar that they put on, the ones that sort of light up. So that's also an option if... lights on a backpack or on on other parts of the dog's body aren't an option, equipment-wise. There's also, we do also have raincoats, but some clients prefer getting something a little bit warmer if they live in really cold climates. If the dog's working, I wouldn't get something that's too thick because you don't want them to sweat, so you'd want to get something that's on the thinner end, um, but still provides that protection. But other than that, most of the equipment is provided in the equipment pack that we initially issue. The big one would sort of probably be the visibility side of things at nighttime.
13:47S1
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show and, uh, talking equipment with me.
13:51S2
No. Anytime. Thank you for having me.
13:58S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs Show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interview with the first with Brooke Anderson. Talking equipment. If you're a singer handler and you'd like to find out about the equipment options available to you. You can talk to your instructor or give us a ring on 1800 037 773. If you are not yet a signal handler and you're blind, or have low vision and would like to find out about applying for AC, IDoc or eligibility, you can also head to our website at S-E-D- visionaustralia - dot - org or give us a ring on that number again 1800 037 773.
Now, without further ado, here is my second interview for this episode with Cassandra Chiu, co-founder of K9 Assistance Singapore, talking about their organization. Thank you for listening. Hi, guys. Thank you for joining me on the show today.
14:45S4
Thank you for having me.
14:47S1
It's not very often that we actually do get international guests on it happens a little bit, but where are you joining from?
14:54S4
I'm joining from Singapore.
14:57S1
So what is the organisation that you are working for and what is your role there?
15:02S4
Well, I'm with the K9 Assistance in Singapore, and we promote the use and acceptance of different types of assistance dogs in Singapore. Currently, only senior dogs for the blind are permitted into public spaces. So that's very, very early stages. I was one of the co-founders. Currently I am leading operations. We are very, very small team and just working our way up and hopefully one day be like [?Sita].
15:27S1
The idea is really it's not just about kind of seeing other dog guides, where people have assumed that that's kind of the main type of assistance.
15:36S4
Yes. Yes. Correct. So currently right now in my country, most people understand assistance dogs as dog guides for the blind. And there isn't legislation, there isn't very much awareness and understanding. So over the last 2 or 3 years since canine assistance has been around, we have been working on education, engaging various stakeholders like business, like government, um, with the hopes of a couple of things. One is, helping them understand that they are all assistance dogs are the same. Essentially, they just perform different tasks to assist their, their handlers. But their behavior, that impeccable public behavior is all the same. And also working on, um, broadening existing legislation that permits assistance dogs into public places like buses, trains, that kind of stuff.
16:25S1
What led you to found K9 Assistance?
16:29S4
Well, I've been a dog guide user for the last. Let me think. Now. 13 years or so. 14 years. And on my second dog. And I felt that it's unfortunate that the blessings, benefits, independence, confidence and safety that I got out of my dog guide was limited to the blindness community, and I wanted to grow that and and allow people with other types of disability to also benefit from this life changing, four legged beauty. Not just beauty. I think it's their. Yeah, brains. Everything. Right.
17:07S1
So I guess if assistance dogs are potentially not quite as, prevalent in Singapore, what led what led you to one kind of... I guess, apply for a dog guide in in the first place? Was it something that you had, I guess, thought about from worldwide context or...
17:28S4
Yeah, very much from a worldwide context. So growing up as a blind person, um, I was an athlete and I was fortunate to travel to many different countries for competitions. And I remember the first time I saw a dog guide, this was probably in the early 90s, and it was in Vision Australia or not Vision Austra... So Perth, and I saw a dog guide there was quite amazing. I've always loved dogs and at that point in time I didn't quite understand what Adult Guide did. I was very, very young, still in my early teens and with with just just a cute dog drew me in. But over the years I, I learned more, I read up more, I explored, and I when I was in Tokyo, I remember I had some vision then, and I remember seeing, at the airport, this, dog guy guiding a blind chap up the train. And I was like, how did it's so cool. He, as a blind person, can move around independently and and has so much freedom of movement. I want to know more.
And that's where I kind of... found books that I could read about it. Like one of them that really, spoke to me and one of the books that really spoke to me and inspired me to get a dog guide was Thunder Dog, from Michael Henson. And yes, that that's what started on that journey.
18:50S1
That's the book about Roselle, is that correct? Yeah.
18:53S4
Yeah, absolutely.
18:55S1
Well, one of the probably one of the more famous stories, but there's so many everyday ones. And I think probably having been in Tokyo and kind of, I guess witness someone working with their own and seeing a scenario that would be quite, quite a cool one for you, quite formative.
19:11S4
It it was very formative because it wasn't in a formal setting and it was so authentic because this was just at at the Narita airport where I was catching a train out because I had a couple of hours, between flights. So I took a train out, to go to the Narita, suburb or town itself to do a little shopping. And, and on the train there was this blind chap with his guide dog.
19:36S1
So how long has K9 Assistance Singapore been operating for?
19:40S4
Last? About three years, I would say so. We are very much in our infancy stage, um, getting all our governance in order as a charity. Um, I would say jumping through lots of hoops. Uh, legally, it's a lot.
19:53S1
Of paperwork, isn't it really?
19:55S4
A lot a lot of correct and and doing the advocacy work. So we are hoping that in the next 12 to 18 months, legislative change will happen and we will be able to start rolling out this amazing four legged creatures.
20:09S5
Yeah.
20:09S1
Great. So the idea, I suppose initially is going to be getting all of that stuff, I guess, underway first. And the advocacy thing, have you looked at what type of or have you considered what types of dogs that you will be training?
20:23S4
We will not be training these dogs from the early stages, but we will be working with um, partner schools overseas who have those expertise because we intend in in Singapore. Disability. The definition of disability is quite different from Australia. For example, like in Singapore, we don't consider mental health conditions, um, such as PTSD, as a disability, we. So primarily it's only sensory meaning blind and deaf and hard of hearing. Um, as well as mobility challenges and um, developmental disabilities such as autism. So the four main disabilities that we'll be focusing on is, of course, a blind and vision impaired community, the deaf and hard of hearing, those with mobility, mobility challenges and the autistic. So having dogs to be able to support their disability and close that gap so people can lead more fulfilled lives.
21:19S1
So what types of roles might those dogs play for their handlers? Other than I suppose the scenario is quite clear. Yeah, just for anyone who's not aware.
21:29S5
Sure.
21:29S4
So hearing dog, for example, would help someone who is deaf or hard of hearing would alert their handler to, for example, doorbell ringing, baby crying in the other room, or even in a situation where they're they're at home, for example, and somebody says, go get mummy or go get Harriet. Assuming you're the handler, the dog is trained to to come fetch you. To the person that has called. But besides that, it also gives the deaf person a lot of environmental awareness, because when you can't hear and you're out and about walking, um, on the streets, you can't hear of a bicycle or a trolley or a car is coming way too close. And and having that dog next to you gives you that awareness about the environment and keeps you a lot safer.
And of course, for it's someone on a wheelchair, for example, mobility assistance dogs will help them open doors, pick up stuff that's dropped. And for the autistics, this is quite interesting because what what the dog does is a couple of different things. It helps them regulate their emotions, um, internally, just within themselves, establish a good routine, whether it's for feeding, feeding themselves, feeding the dog, and emotional regulation, or even as well as external emotional regulation regulations such as when something is overstimulating, such as bright lights or loud sounds.
Then being able to calm them by doing deep pressure therapy. So the dog is trained to put their paws on the chest of the, the handler when a meltdown happens and and keep them calm and safe as well as, interestingly, lead them, guide them away from a source of overstimulation, such as a room that. Yeah. So kind of like what a dog guide does, right. Like so they recognise that the stimuli that when the rooms to triggering for the handler, the dog recognises that before the meltdown happens and nudges the handler, to basically say Let the...
23:38S5
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. This is not fun for either of us. Let's go. Come on, man.
23:43S4
Yeah, absolutely.
23:45S1
So you mentioned that the access rights are not written in the legislation, for dogs that aren't...
23:52S4
Yeah. So I'll legislation currently is pretty clear that it specifically says Guide dogs for the blind and vision impaired. So what we're trying to do is to expand that, so that people with different disabilities can also benefit from that.
24:11S1
So what is the kind of general, I suppose, attitudes and awareness of working dogs for the public? I mean, I think sometimes legislation is quite a bit behind, say, what member of the general public would be thinking or feeling? Um, you know, do you get a grasp or do you get a kind of idea on whether the general public, if those legislations were changed, would be kind of positive or potentially there'd be a lot more work to do there?
24:36S4
I think it's it's positive because what one of the pieces of work we've done in the last couple of months is we've done a public perception survey, um, with people from various walks of life, different age groups, different races with and without disabilities, both male and females. And we have an overwhelming almost 90% of the respondents in the survey have said that, um, they are tolerant and understanding of persons with disabilities using assistance dogs in public places. So I think that there is that desire there, um, to have a more inclusive, um, culture within the country.
25:14S1
So recently you visited Australia andI guess Victoria in particular, or kind of local to us. What was the purpose of your trip? To visit Australian seeing eye dogs?
25:27S4
Well, I think a big part of that was learning the processes behind having an assistance dog school. What are the areas that we need to start thinking about? Because we have been in phase one of our work, which is very much what we spoke about earlier, the advocacy, the legislative changes. But as we move into phase two and start to put out these dogs, we need processes in place. We need dogs in place. And we need people, fellow assistance dog schools like SEDA, that will be willing to partner with us, journey with us, and help us grow and establish because we don't have those expertise. I may be a a dog guide user for the last 14 years, but I certainly can't train a dog, let alone other types of assistance dog. So it's it's really about building friendships with organisations all around the world.
26:19S1
Is it? Kind of unique, relatively for a school to have multiple different types of dogs, including single dogs, or I would say.
26:28S4
Yes and no. There are there are other types of schools, other schools in the US, for example, that have, um, 2 or 3 different types, um, that, that they do have, but it is not common. I would say usually it's more specialized. And when we do eventually have our instructors, our plans are big and ambitious and hopefully we'll get there. I know you'll take some time, but we hope to have the instructors be all around it and be be able to train and deliver different types of assistance dogs to people with different disabilities.
27:03S1
Well, it sounds like you've got a lot of really interesting plans, and I have my fingers crossed for you guys with some, you know, hopefully with a bit of support from a lot of schools. But, with all of your hard work that it pays off and you guys get the legislation first and the rest of it.
27:16S4
Yeah, absolutely. That's what we're looking forward to.
27:20S1
Also, is there anything else that,, yeah, that you'd like to, to share with, I guess listeners of this show that we've missed, about K9 Assistance?
27:30S4
Think more speaking to the handlers, of the guides, from SEDA, it's it's really about how... well, to me, at least as, as a blind person is really how, um, both my dog guides over the years have opened my eyes to so much more in terms of just living a more independent life. But also allowing me to dare to dream bigger and to do more. And I would hopefully encourage, um, the listeners as well, if, if they do have dreams, whether it's within the blindness community or outside, to, um, just try, you never know what will happen.
28:06S1
That's a great thing to finish off with. Well, well, thank you so much for joining me on the show. And and best of luck to you and K9 Assistance with all of your work.
28:14S4
Thank you so much for having me, Harriet.
28:22S1
You've been listening to the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia Radio. I hope you enjoyed my interviews with Brooke Anderson, seeing our dogs instructor talking about equipment, and Cassandra Chiu, Canine Assistant Singapore co-founder. If you'd like to find out more about the work that Singh does, how you can help, or becoming a single handler or get support. If you are an existing handler, head to our website at Sydney, Australia. Org or if you are a handler or you'd like to find out more about becoming a handler, you can give us a ring on 1800 037 773. Thank you for listening to this episode and don't forget to tune in same time next week for another episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs show on Vision Australia radio.
