Speaker 1 00:02
This is a Vision Australia Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 00:18
On Vision Australia Radio, welcome to our conversations on the work and experiences of emerging writers. I'm Kate Cooper and our guest today is Glenn Butcher, Auslan interpreter, poet and singer -songwriter and fellow Vision Australia radio volunteer. Welcome to the program Glenn.
Speaker 3 00:38
Thank you, Kate. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 00:40
I'd like to begin with a question that I've asked a number of guests on this program. Would you tell us about where you grew up and what that place means to you now?
Speaker 3 00:50
I was born in Melbourne in a place called Mount Waverley, which is just in the south-eastern suburbs of Melbourne. My parents had built a house there back in the 50s when there were no other houses around and so our street was called Seaview Street because they could actually see the sea from there, even though it was a long way away. My parents moved to Berwick in 1991 and our house was actually bought by a builder who then moved the entire house to Shepparton in country Victoria. So if I ever wanted to visit my old house, it's there in Shepparton.
I don't get back to the area that often but with Facebook and everything, recently someone when I say recently was during COVID, someone set up a Facebook group for our grade 6 class so we sort of reconnected with a whole lot of people from that time which was in 1975.
Speaker 2 01:42
Oh wow, so people would have looked quite different from how they did back then.
Speaker 3 01:46
Yeah, and to be honest some of the names pop up and I've got a reasonably good memory I'd like to think, but some of the names I struggled with putting a face to a name.
Speaker 2 01:56
Well, he would after a number of years, I'd be struggling to recognise anyone I was in grade six with, I think. Glenn, you interpret between English and Auslan, which is a visual spatial language. Would you tell us the story of your relationship to Auslan and what inspired you to become an interpreter?
Speaker 3 02:17
I was working at the Royal Society for the Blind as it happens, I'd started as a volunteer and then I eventually got a job there and I was working in the employment area where we helped blind and vision impaired people into employment and we had a couple of deaf clients join, they had some vision but were profoundly deaf so every time we had an appointment we had to book an interpreter. So myself and a colleague just got interested and we went to the deaf club for introductory courses, five over the course of a year just for two hours one night a week and I really enjoyed it to the point where the next year I enrolled in TAFE to do my certificate too, not thinking I'd ever work in the field.
And I almost had my cert two after two years and I saw a job come up in the deaf community, the same job basically doing helping them into employment. So I applied for that and I got it and then because I was signing every day with our clients, my signing just naturally improved - and I had a few breaks and study along the way and qualified in 2018 as an interpreter and been doing it full-time since 2020.
Speaker 2 03:24
That's brilliant. Would you describe for our listeners how and why interpreters and Auslan communicators use the whole body when communicating in Auslan?
Speaker 3 03:35
Yeah, well, the idea is to be understood, and the communication expression is a big part of that. And whereas with your voice, you have a tone, you have emphasis, the physical movements gestures that you use in sign language convey that tone and that emphasis in different ways.
Speaker 2 03:55
I've had experience over the years interpreting between English and Spanish at public forums and other meetings, but in those situations the speaker says just a few sentences in their language and then pauses so that I can translate them. Then they speak, pause, I translate, and so on. The concentration level that requires is quite demanding, but those pauses do allow me as an interpreter to reset my brain and keep up. For you though, moving between Auslan and English, the translation process is simultaneous. You don't get those pauses, so you need to keep up the concentration throughout. That's a highly specialised skill. What strategies do you use to maintain your focus and your energy?
Speaker 3 04:41
Yes, well, it's simultaneous, but there's also what they call a lag time, so if someone starts speaking, we're in our head, okay, well, I need to change this into Auslan, and then that comes out in our expressing ourselves. And conversely, if someone is signing to me, then I've got to change that into English for the hearing people. So what that means is it's a code switch where, in my mind, I'm going from English to Auslan and then bring it out and vice versa. And it can be very demanding, on the mind and also physically as well.
A lot of times you might do a job. Depending upon what type of job it is, you can get quite tense and so your neck and your shoulders and your back can get quite sore. Longer appointments, you would have two interpreters who rotate every 15 minutes.
Speaker 2 05:28
Yeah. Grammatically, Auslan is structured differently to English. How does that also influence the way you're switching your mind all the time? Because it's not word for word.
Speaker 3 05:42
No, it's not. There is a form called signed English where it is word for word, but there's not a sign for every word. So that involves a lot of finger spelling for, you know, those linking small words. Whereas in Auslan, they have Auslan phrases and you just get rid of all the superfluous words that you don't need. And often the topic or the subject is at the start and not at the end. Auslan has its own grammar and structure and syntax. It's its own language, and it's been recognised by the Australian government as an official language.
Speaker 2 06:14
And Auslan, of course, is an Australian language and a reminder to us of the diversity of languages and cultures that form such a vibrant part of our community. What are some of the personal benefits that you've gained by being able to move between languages and cultures?
Speaker 3 06:31
Well, I mean, for one thing, I'm proud of the fact that I learned another language and after the age of 40 and just my involvement with the deaf community is just so rewarding. You know, some of the best times I spend in my job is in a doctor's waiting room because particularly if you've just met someone for the first time and they just want to, particularly older deaf, they just want to tell you their story and they're interested in you and why you became an interpreter - particularly for someone like me who doesn't have any connection to the deaf community prior to become an interpreter, they have a really rich history as well and so I just love that involvement with the deaf community.
Speaker 2 07:07
Glenn, to what extent has your knowledge of Auslan influenced the way you now express yourself in English?
Speaker 3 07:15
You do get a sense of economy of words, because in Auslan, everything, why do you need to say a whole sentence when you can just say it like that with one sign? And also when, if I'm in a conversation with someone and the subject of my job comes up, while I'm explaining to them what I do, I automatically start signing. And I think a lot of us do that, it's just a habit. Or if you're talking about interpreting, you just naturally start to do it.
Speaker 2 07:40
And if any of our listeners are interested in finding out more about learning Auslan, where can they do so?
Speaker 3 07:46
So there's a couple of organisations, deaf-led organisations in Adelaide. There's Deaf Connect, which is actually a nationwide organisation, but they have an office here in South Australia. Sign Language Australia also has courses, Deaf Butterfly Australia and other... they're all deaf-led organisations and they all have, obviously, presence online and they can do introductory courses. They can do Auslan in the home. People on NDIS have access to it as well.
Speaker 2 08:14
Brilliant. Glenn, you're also a volunteer here at Vision Australia Radio. How did you get started and what do you do here?
Speaker 3 08:24
Well I was working in insurance back in the 90s and I was looking to do some volunteer work, and I just contacted Radio 5RPH as it was called back then, and I became a volunteer in about 2000. And at that stage I was doing a little sports magazine program on a Monday morning. And then I got this job at the Royal Society for the Blind, so I had to stop doing that... and I didn't come back until 2014. So I've been back for 10 years now. And I read the Sunday mail every fortnight, I previously did it every week but now I do it every fortnight.
Speaker 2 09:01
And what do you love about your involvement with Vision Australia Radio?
Speaker 3 09:06
I just love providing a service to people who can benefit from it, and there's a lot of great people who work here as well.
Speaker 2 09:13
There are. One of the things I really love is being part of this community of volunteers. There are over a hundred of us now who do volunteer in different capacities at Vision Australia Radio.
Speaker 3 09:24
Yeah, well, I mean, to my shame, I sometimes think I didn't even think about volunteering until I was, like, almost late 30s, had never entered my head - and now, you know, I couldn't not do it.
Speaker 2 09:37
Glenn, you're a poet and a singer-songwriter, and not so long ago you set yourself a daily challenge. Would you tell us about that?
Speaker 3 09:45
Well, I've always written poetry. I can remember since I was a young teenager, I had a... poem published in the school magazine, which was about, funnily enough, football and the grand final, and if I can just read, remember one line, it was...
In the dressing rooms was the smell of liniment, leather and vinyl. Everything was in readiness for the VFL grand final.
Tells you how long ago it was. It's the VFL grand final. And so I've just been writing poetry ever since then, mostly for myself, but also people got wind of it and I started writing poems for... work events. And then people would ask me to write a poem for their mother's birthday, all this kind of stuff. So I did that for years, but I had gotten out of the habit of it. And what happened was I discovered a American singer-songwriter called John Prine in late 2017. And I'd heard about him, but I'd never heard his music. And once I heard it, I was immediately hooked and I loved his lyric writing. So that made me want to get back into writing poetry. I thought, how am I going to force myself to do this?
So I thought, I set myself a goal in 2018 of writing a poem a day, which I managed to do, so 365 poems later. And, you know, some of them were four lines long. Some of them were two pages long, but most were about a page or half a page to a page, and that sort of got me back into it. And then after, after doing it for a few months, I thought, oh, some of these might actually be okay as songs. So I just had to add a few basic chords to them and there they were. All of a sudden I had 35 or 40 songs.
Speaker 2 11:18
Glenn, would you perform one of your songs for us now?
Speaker 3 11:21
Sure. This is not actually one of the 365 poems, but this is the one that I wrote a couple of years ago. I... heard a song by english artist Nick Lowe, and in there there was a line about smoking: I once quit, and now I've got one lit, I just fell back into it... and it made me think of writing a song about drinking, quitting drinking, but then continuing to drink - so this is called Been Drinking Since I Quit.
(SINGS)
Been drinking since I quit, can't get enough of it Mostly cause of how it makes me feel
I drink alone at night, I have not seen the light But now I'm stuck upon that spinning wheel
I lost my job last week, now I'm up that creek Everything is gone, and then some
I've worked hard all my life, no time for a wife While it's not fair, but welfare, here I come
I'll have to spend less cash, and live on dreams and mash I'll only wear old clothes, lucky I've got lots of those
Been drinking since I quit, that's why I'm full of wit My friends have dropped away, one by one
know why they went to ground, I was no fun to be around No one to blame, when all is said and done
I need to change my ways, and not drink for days and days I'll have to take good care, or I'll end up drunk somewhere
When I'm drinking, and I'm thinking this will be my last In my head, that voice I dread says, buddy, not so fast
I'm drinkin' since I quit, can't take much more of it My brain is drownin' in a fog of foam I've seen too many bars, been inside police cars Now all I wanna do is just go home
Please don't buy me beer, you won't see me round here I have to face my fears, cause I've been quittin' for twenty years
Speaker 2 15:18
Thank you. On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to our conversation program, Emerging Writers. Our guest today is Glenn Butcher, Auslan interpreter, poet and singer -songwriter and fellow Vision Australia Radio volunteer. Glenn, earlier in the year, I heard you singing at a volunteer event that we had here at Vision Australia Radio and all of the team here loved your singing, loved your voice, I heard a lot of people say how beautifully melodic your voice is, but also the gentle humour that comes through your songs was what really won the audience over as well.
You mentioned before about having written a poem when you were quite young, so when did you actually first start writing poetry and what drew you to this genre?
Speaker 3 16:17
Can't quite recall why. My father used to write a little bit of poetry, so he had the ability to you know rhyming couplets kind of thing and I guess I just must have started fooling around, and it wasn't... I think that, I think I was informed too when that poem was published, and then when I was about 16 or 17 you know teenage angst and stuff - so I just started writing poetry then - but it's always been rhyming, rhyming poetry... and people say Oh it can't be that hard just to rhyme two words together, and it's not really - but it's the overall getting a sense of some sort of accomplishment and making it interesting and making it something that people want to listen to.
And I try and avoid cliches and that kind of thing, and just, and yeah, I find putting a bit of humour in there sometimes just gives it a lift.
Speaker 2 17:10
And makes it relatable for people as well. You've mentioned a couple of songwriters. Are there particular poets who've influenced you?
Speaker 3 17:19
Not really, to be honest. No, I'm not a big poetry reader. Although having said that, I do love the work of Dorothy Parker.
Speaker 2 17:28
Yeah.
Speaker 3 17:28
I have a couple of her tomes - and yeah, she was very clever
Speaker 2 17:32
Very sharp wit. And you mentioned the word wit earlier on in your song. So at what stage did you start writing song lyrics as well as poems?
Speaker 3 17:45
Going back about 15 or 16 years, I was in a musical comedy duo with a friend of mine and I didn't, he played guitar. I didn't, I've had a guitar for about 30 years, but I've only played it seriously in the last maybe five or six. So we just used to write comedy songs together. Some were parodies and some were original songs as well. So I just used what I took from writing poetry into writing songs. And then, yeah, with the poem A Day, I started turning some of those into songs.
And then when I got into the music community in Adelaide through Scala, I met a couple of guys and one guy, he had a little songwriting group together. So I joined that. So once a month on a Monday, and it was during COVID, so it was all online, someone would come up with a theme and we all had to write a song around that theme with our own interpretation could be anything. And so even once a month, there's like 12 songs a year and I've been doing it for three or four years. We're on a bit of a hiatus at the moment. So I've got another 30, 40 songs out of that as well, which has been really beneficial.
Speaker 2 18:52
And you mentioned when talking about writing a poem a day that you wrote the poems, then you thought some of them would be good as songs, so do you tend to write the lyrics first and then think of the melody to work around the lyrics?
Speaker 3 19:05
Mostly, mostly I do... and sometimes it might be I'll just messing around on the guitar and I'll think Oh, that sounds that sounds okay - in fact the next song I do will be that, developed that way... and when we had a theme, you know, you just have to come up with the lyrics - and sometimes I'll mess around on the guitar just to get a feel of where it may be going melody-wise, but mostly it's just writing the lyrics first - and even, I mean with that project I kept my writing pad on my bed for the whole year because often I'd forget, you know I'd be going to bed and I think, I haven't written my poem yet. And sometimes you know ten minutes later I had a full sheet in front of me. So yeah, it was, that was the way to keep me motivated
Speaker 2 19:48
That sounds really, really good actually - and I've spoken with other people on this program who wake up in the middle of the night and have an idea and either grab the phone or pen and paper and get it down... otherwise, leave it till the morning, it's not always there.
Speaker 3 20:02
No, and I've found that so often writing songs,and I'll think of a lyric if I'm in... the shower or driving I think, I've got to write that down now or remember it - and then you don't remember it. So now I just I just dictate it into my voice memos in the phone now. I've got hundreds of little little lines of songs
Speaker 2 20:20
You've mentioned before about Scala, the songwriter's composers and lyricists association. Would you tell us about what Scala does and in particular the festival of original music?
Speaker 3 20:31
Yeah, so they're just an organisation that encourages original music in South Australia. I'm not sure how many years it's been going, but it's been going for a long time. And the festival, they have open mics during the year, and they give performers an opportunity to be a featured artist or do a spotlight, which is three songs, or the feature, which is 45 minutes on stage doing your songs. And the festival original music is generally around July, August, September, and you can enter in different categories. You can do a live performance. You can send in a recorded performance or lyrics only or instrumentals.
So I've submitted a couple of songs a year for the last few years. And I'm fortunate to make the final last year, which was pretty cool.
Speaker 2 21:16
You did, and you performed your song, You Are Sunshine, and that is available on YouTube. So for our listeners, if they want to hear it, they can look up Glenn Butcher, You Are Sunshine, and they'll hear it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 21:31
Yeah, there was a videographer there on the night, and when I saw it, it looks very professional. It's got different angles and everything. It'd come up pretty well.
Speaker 2 21:42
So it was a good experience to be part of that festival.
Speaker 3 21:45
Oh, it's great. It's great every year because there's always, there's a lot of the same people enter every year, but then there's always new people coming along and the open mic, the music community in Adelaide is very welcoming and friendly I've found.
Speaker 2 21:58
Would you perform another of your songs for us?
Speaker 3 22:01
Now this is the song that I was just messing around on the guitar, and I was playing a C chord and I just wanted to get a variation on the C chord so I was just sort of going like that and then I came up with... (CHORD) I thought Oh, that sounds like a good introduction. And because I was writing a song, the first line that came into my head was "I wrote a song about you" so and it ended up becoming this song which is called Your Perfume.
(SINGS)
I wrote a song about you But I didn't use your name I wondered if you even realised I wondered if you felt the same
But when I play that song you're never in the room The only thing that's there is the scent from your perfume
I wrote that song with your direction Even though you didn't know I only made one correction I changed it to I love you so
My heart is beating fast when you walk in the room My love is breathing in the scent from your perfume
I wrote that song in the morning I wrote it with a ballpoint pen I wrote it once then I destroyed it And so I wrote it all again
Now our friends often say, can you two get a room? We leave them with a smile and the scent from your perfume Your perfume Your perfume
Speaker 2 25:35
Thank you. That was beautiful. Thank you. Glenn, what's your most memorable performance experience?
Speaker 3 25:43
Probably the Scarlet Grand Final last year, although it was pretty cool I must say to do 45 minutes at the Wheatsheaf Hotel when I got a feature spot as well. And also I had a spot at the Crown and Anchor one night last year as well. Yeah, it's just a great opportunity to get out there and show your wares and the crowds are always good and very responsive.
Speaker 2 26:07
That's one thing we've learned through this program. There is so much poetry, singer songwriting, folk music events around Adelaide. Glenn, when you're not working as an Auslan interpreter, volunteering with Vision Australia Radio or writing and performing songs, what do you enjoy doing?
Speaker 3 26:26
Well, yeah, it doesn't leave a lot of time for everything. But I do enjoy my sport, football and cricket. I love the Sydney Swans and I love the Australian Test cricket team. So they've long been my passions.
Speaker 2 26:39
Glenn, it's been wonderful to speak with you. Before we finish, could we hear one more song?
Speaker 3 26:45
I, and this is a debut, this performance, never performed live outside of my lounge room, occasionally in the bathroom because the acoustics are quite good. And this is a song that I'll be performing actually at the Fleurieu Folk Festival in October. They have a songwriting competition, the Judith Crosley Memorial Songwriting Award, and it has to be a song about South Australia people, places, events. So because I'm not from South Australia, but I've lived here now for 31, almost 32 years, I wrote the song about how I feel about South Australia in the form of a relationship. So hopefully it's a bit ambiguous to the listener. And it's just called Adelaide.
(SINGS)
Wind blows in Adelaide down West Lakes Boulevard You know you never made me blue Wind blows in Adelaide along the Seacliff Esplanade It's where I fell in love with you Why did you never let me run away Those times when I was so afraid I didn't want to leave you anyway Oh, Adelaide Rain falls in Adelaide in the hills and on the coast We braved the storms when they were rough Rain falls in Adelaide and it's the time I love the most We hold each other and it's enough Why did you never let me run away Those times when I was so afraid I didn't want to leave you anyway...
Speaker 2 29:15
Our guest on Emerging Writers today was Glenn Butcher, Auslan interpreter, poet and singer-songwriter and fellow Vision Australia radio volunteer. This program can be heard at the same time each week here on Vision Australia Radio, VA Radio on Digital, online at varadio.org and also on Vision Australia Radio podcasts, where you can catch up on earlier episodes.
(SINGING)
Sunshine's in Adelaide, and I knew it from the start You welcomed me with open arms Sunshine's in Adelaide, I had a feeling in my heart I fell for you and all your charms Why did you never let me run away? Those times when I was so afraid I didn't want to leave you anyway Oh Adelaide Oh Adelaide Oh my Adelaide...
Speaker 1 30:59
Thanks for listening to this Vision Australia Radio podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. Visit varadio.org for more.
Speaker 2 31:10
Vision Australia Radio. Blindness. Low vision. Opportunity.
