Speaker 1 00:02
This is a Vision Australia Radio podcast.
Speaker 2 00:18
On Vision Australia Radio, welcome to our conversations on the work and experiences of Emerging Writers. I'm Kate Cooper and our guest on today's program is Sarah Jane Justice, an award -winning spoken word artist, voice actor, published prose author and poet, a musician and songwriter. Sarah is also a member of the management team of Spoken Word SA, which is the caretaker of the South Australian component of the Australian poetry slam, including the summer slam and themed slams, as well as other events and programs that support spoken word poets in our state.
We'll hear more about Spoken Word SA later in our conversation, but first welcome to the program Sarah. We have much to talk about and as we are recording this conversation on World Poetry Day, the 21st of March, we have much to celebrate too. I'd like to begin with a question that I've asked a number of guests on this program. Would you tell us about where you grew up and what that place means to you now?
Speaker 3 01:28
Thank you for having me. I grew up in Newcastle in New South Wales and it's a strange feeling going back there and you know I live here full -time and it's rare that I actually go back to the places where I grew up and I actually have a poem about the experience of visiting a place that once met so much to you but now has lost those connections. I thought I'd offer to read it for you. That would be fantastic. Thank you. Excellent. So this poem is called Unwelcome Home I should mention that it was published online in an edition of a online literary journal called South Broadway Ghost Society so if anyone does want to find that online the link is on my website - so yes this is called Unwelcome Home.
There is no safety in having left you are dragged back by a cold graze memory cuts your clean slate skin scratching it until it splits cracks cross lines on paper maps you are here you are spread you are lost in naked familiarity your history is held captive locked in city street corners you bite their hard candy surface you recoil from their snake bite sour this place was rinsed but never washed the past is a lingering taste tainting the space between memories smoke signals extend their reach waving across a landscape of half -lived years this city is not yours but you are held within it its scraped out shell will find you it will paint you it will never let you forget that you can never again be new.
Speaker 2 03:14
That's beautiful and I love that line the past is a lingering taste. That's wonderful.
Speaker 3 03:19
Thank you, and yes, that's just trying to explain literally how my hometown, the place where I grew up, is such a strange feeling now, and that's exactly how I best described it.
Speaker 2 03:31
And I think for many of us who don't live where we once grew up, that poem really resonates.
Speaker 3 03:37
Yes, excellent. Well, I'm glad I had a poem to represent your exact question. That's very convenient.
Speaker 2 03:43
Convenient for me too. Sarah, you've worked creatively across several genres including spoken word poetry, published prose and poetry, songwriting and music performance. Would you tell us about your earliest memories of working creatively?
Speaker 3 03:59
I was always very drawn to writing and fiction and music and poetry. I have this memory of like begging my parents for piano lessons and they were happy to have me learn piano, but it was just, I wanted to from such a young age that it was sort of too early that I wanted to play the piano almost before I could read. And I remember writing poems and short stories when I was in primary school. And I still remember some of them. I remember writing about a tree that grew all sorts of different fruit, you know, the kind of thing you write when you're a child and you know, an old chest in the attic that was led to a different world. Those kinds of things that I, yes, wrote as a child that for some reason have stuck with me and I still remember them vaguely.
Speaker 2 04:46
In 2017, you were a poet-in-residence through the partnership between Spoken Word SA and the Adelaide City Library. What inspired you to first start performing your poetry at Spoken Word events?
Speaker 3 05:01
It was a complete accident, honestly. I had been performing as a singer -songwriter just, you know, at like acoustic nights and open mics around Adelaide, and I had a friend who had started going to these spoken word events that I had never heard of. I didn't really know what spoken word was, what slam poetry was, or any of those kinds of things. But because the music I wrote was always sort of, you know, poetry set to music was how it was often described. And this friend encouraged me to come along to an event, like it was a competition that they were entering. And, you know, I was going to, I was giving them a lift, and they said, well, why don't you enter?
And that was the Guwah Poetry Cup in 2016. That was my first taste of spoken word. And with a couple of pieces I had written that week, frantically googling what is spoken word, like, well, what kind of poetry is this? I ended up winning the People's Choice Award, which was, it was a $100 prize, which, yes, it was amazing. And it gave me enough of a taste to want to come back. And actually, the following year in 2017, I returned to that competition and won the cup itself. So, yeah, it was purely by chance that someone I knew needed a lift to an event. And that's how I discovered that this community exists. The joy of serendipity.
Speaker 2 06:22
Isn't that true? Now we've had spoken word poets and one poetry slam participant on the program but it was quite some time ago so for our listeners who might not be sure about spoken word poetry and poetry slams would you just explain those terms for us?
Speaker 3 06:39
Of course! No, that is one of the most common questions I get asked when I talk about running Spoken Word SA and, you know, all these competitions. So, Spoken Word poetry is just poetry that is performed. It is poetry that's spoken. And what is so wonderful about it is that it is whatever the poet makes, that we see all sorts of different styles. We see things that are very literary, that have these beautiful imagery and metaphor. And then we see things that you know, almost like lyrics, like songwriting. And we see, I love it when we get people who come from a hip hop background and they do these amazing intricate rhymes on the stage with, you know, no backing beat.
And the only difference between Spoken Word poetry and SLAM poetry is that SLAM poetry is the competition. It's not the style of poetry, which is, I think, a misunderstanding that a lot of people have.
Speaker 2 07:38
That's really helpful because I wasn't quite sure, at first, the difference, but slams the competition, spoken word, performance, and of course you do perform as part of the SLAM competition.
Speaker 3
Exactly.
Speaker 2 07:51
Now, we mentioned before, you were a poet in residence through the partnership between Spoken Word SA and the Adelaide City Library, would you tell us about your experiences?
Speaker 3 08:02
Yes, absolutely. I love talking about this, especially now that I'm part of the team that facilitates this program and, you know, selects the successful applicant for the Poet in Residence. So, I submitted my application in 2017, which, if you recall the timeline, I had only just found out months before that what spoken word was, and suddenly I was immersed, diving headfirst into this scene and everything that it comes with. And I remember being very kind of uncertain about how to approach it. I felt I had a lot of imposter syndrome because I had this concept.
My residency was called If These Books Could Talk, and it was about taking books in all different sections of the library and creating poems based on those books or inspired by them in all different, you know, however the participants in the workshops interpreted that.
And I had never run workshops. I had never taught anything at that time. And I was like, I have no idea what I'm doing. And I really am glad to tell this story now that I'm on the administrative side of that because it doesn't matter if you've run workshops before. It doesn't matter what your qualifications are. It's the concept and the willingness to run it and the willingness to use that space, the beautiful space of the Adelaide City Library and engage the community. And us and the City Library, we guide the successful applicant.
And I'm glad that I have this experience because not only was it an incredible opportunity for myself as a poet, but now I have that background that when I have poets who aren't certain whether they want to apply for the Poet in Residence program, I can say, look, I had no idea what I was doing. And, you know, most of the successful applicants, they don't have that background either. They just have that concept and that idea and that's what we like.
Speaker 2 09:57
So really it's not just about developing poetry crafting skills, but it's developing teaching skills, workshop facilitation, supporting others to be able to create their own poetry, so there's a wealth of experience to be gained.
Speaker 3 10:14
Yes, and it's also a paid, it's a paid opportunity for the poet. We like to make sure our creatives locally are reimbursed as well as we can afford to reimburse them. And yes, with the help of the Adelaide City Library, it is a good paying gig for a poet.
Speaker 2 10:31
And how often does this poet in residence residency take place?
Speaker 3 10:35
It takes place twice a year, so I am currently in the works planning, helping our current resident who will be starting their residency in April, which is just around the corner. So we will have a poet in residence working, running the program in April very soon, and then we will take applications for the second intake further down the line this year, I think in about July, by my recollection, but yes we do twice a year. So anyone listening who thinks they might have an idea, if you know you're not sure, just put in an application, you never know.
Speaker 2 11:14
That sounds brilliant, so what commitment does it involve on the part of the poet in residence?
Speaker 3 11:21
It is a series of workshops, usually, something that engages the community inside the space of the Adelaide City Library. It is also some kind of performance or presentation at the end of the residency. It goes for a month, and usually there's about six sessions run by the poet. So yes, we ask that the poet be available for that month, but yes, there's only, I think, six to eight workshops, residency sessions, etc.
Speaker 2 11:49
Sounds like a fantastic experience. And I've got another question of clarification. The poetry that they produce, can it be intended as spoken and or written or even produced in another form?
Speaker 3 12:03
Well, we need the poets to have an element of spoken word. As you know, spoken word essay, that's sort of what we do. But what I love is usually the poets will have this very experimental, very creative approach to it. And we've seen some, there's been a lot of written poetry that's been created. There's been some video poetry that's been created and all these other extremely unique approaches to what poetry can be in the forms it can take.
And I love to see that.
Speaker 2 12:34
Fantastic. Now the residency has a real community focus and at the recent Youth Week Spoken Word Poetry Showcase you spoke about the community of spoken word poets in South Australia. Would you tell us more about this community and what it means to you personally?
Speaker 3 12:53
Oh, I absolutely love talking about the community of spoken word in Adelaide and South Australia as well. It is so welcoming and so encouraging. And it is something where there's a lot of open mics around the place where people can come, anyone can get up on the stage and read something to the audience. And you know, you see open mics in a lot of different creative genres. And I have never seen one that is so encouraging and friendly as in the spoken word community. It's just a place where if you have the courage to get up and share your words, you will be embraced, you know, you will be given that applause and people will tell you, good job, you did great, we hope to see you again.
And you know, there's, as I said, there's open mics, there's showcases, like poetry showcases, people, you know, we get feature acts of poets who perform a set of their own work and usually that's accompanied by an open mic. And then of course we have the competitions and other like community events and there is just so much like it's more than you could possibly imagine because anyone outside of the spoken word community usually has no idea how deep that iceberg actually goes. And it's such a wonderful thing that I would encourage anyone to come along and just watch and just meet people.
Speaker 2 14:14
You mentioned about having the courage before and I wanted to ask you because for many people it would be quite nerve -wracking to start performing poetry in public. What experiences can you share about how to prepare for a performance to warm up your voice but also to manage any feelings of nervousness?
Speaker 3 14:34
I think the most important thing to remember is that everyone gets nervous. You are not the only person who is nervous, and somehow I think a lot of people find that comforting. I always intend it to be comforting. Prepare if you're unsure, you know, make sure you've prepared your poem you've practiced. And when it comes to competition, I always encourage people to memorize their poem, even if they don't end up performing it without, you know, a transcript in front of them. The work you put into attempting to memorise something means that you have the performance down pat. You have it, not just the words themselves, but you practice the performance of it, which in competitions is very important.
But in terms of just getting up and reading your work, I always like to give people, I like to try and give people almost a personal congratulations and thank you when people get up at an open mic and read their work for the first time. Because that's such a hugely vulnerable thing to do. Usually, people write about things that are important to them and sharing that with a room full of strangers or even a room full of people they know. Sometimes that's more intimidating if it's people that you know. And from my personal experience, coming from having been a musician, having musical backing and a piano in front of me, somehow it is like a hundred times more intimidating to just be using your voice.
It's more vulnerable than a lot of people might think, more vulnerable than I thought before going into it. But yeah, I guess just prepare, know that you will be nervous, that's inevitable. And don't push yourself. If you're feeling too uncomfortable, if you're anxious to the point of feeling sick, don't force yourself to perform before you think you're ready.
Speaker 2 16:27
That is really, really good advice. On Vision Australia Radio, you're listening to our conversation program, Emerging Writers. Our guest today is Sarah Jane Justice, award -winning spoken word artist, voice actor, published prose author and poet, musician and songwriter, and member of the management team at Spoken Word SA. Sarah, would you perform one of your Spoken Word poems for us?
Speaker 3 17:00
I would love to, thank you. So this piece is called To Him.
To him, you are a shell. To him, you are the glass -blown coating he slowly wrapped around your skin. You are the bruise -colored cover he rubs deeper and deeper in until to him, you are hollow bronze, a trophy he made with his own name displayed. To him, you are the words you wrote in silence. You are the words he fought back into your mouth, the words he forced down your throat, the words that choked you. To him, you are your own lip sewn shut by his fingers while on fists.
He lists the words that he'll insist. You never spoke. To him, you are smoke. To him, you are a ghost floating out of his pipe. You are his second hand high. You are why he stood holding your soul on a leash. Why he swears you were best as the pet that he kept. To him, you are the liar. To him, you are better for the weight of his chains. You are safe from your ways. You are part way to saved as he rides by your side as the knight who might save you.
To him, he is king. To him, he will spare you the mercy you need. And to him, his forgiveness to you is so sweet. And to him, you aren't worth it. To him, he will tell you, you never deserved it. But to you, to you, he is a stain that won't quite scrub away. To you, he is pain that still coats your insides. He is screams on a tape that replays through your mind. To you, he is scars scratched in white over white. Words designed so his name stays unseen by your side.
But you, you are art outgrown from the artist. You are fire that never needed a match. You are a sword built from your own armor. And you are so much more than what you were to him.
Speaker 2 19:23
Thank you so much. There's a profound strength in the words and also an incredible strength in your delivery of those words. There's a real rhythm and a power that if I'd been reading the words on a page I would have felt the strength of them but I wouldn't have captured that rhythm, the additional dimension that comes from hearing the poem.
Speaker 3 19:50
Thank you for saying, and yes, that's something that I've found, obviously, writing in different genres. When I started working on spoken word, I experimented and tried different things, and something that I found was the best way to approach it is to remember that this is spoken, and you can add that dimension. You have that, almost that extra instrument at your disposal, and that's why the poetry that I write is completely different to poetry that I perform. I keep them very separate.
Speaker 2 20:21
And that's the question I wanted to ask you because you've been a finalist at various events and you've won several awards, as we heard before, for your creative work. So I'm just going to mention a few, if I may. You're the winner of the 2020 Northern Fringes Poetry Slam, the winner of the 2019 Salisbury Fringe Poetry Slam, essay state champion of the 2018 Australian Poetry Slam, and as we heard earlier, you're the winner of the 2017 Gulwar Poetry Cup and the People's Choice Award at the 2016 Gulwar Poetry Cup. So congratulations on those awards. And I'm really interested to hear about how your experiences of performing your poetry have influenced the way you create your work now.
Speaker 3 21:08
Definitely it is and it's all that, you know, figuring out how to create is a long process that can't be rushed. It's about trying different things and figuring out what works and creating a spoken piece. You know, it's, it's, I will write the concept essentially and I'll write a first draft and when I've got the first draft on the page, I will read it out loud to myself and it's only in reading it out loud that I will find those things that need to be changed and sometimes I'll discover, you know, words that are satisfying when put next to each other that you only hear when it's set out loud and it's something that, yeah, it is a very different process from writing written poetry, which of course is that a different process to writing music.
But there is of course overlap in all three and something that I aim to occasionally do is adapt different pieces from spoken to written and vice versa.
Speaker 2 22:09
So you mentioned your music writing as well as your poetry writing. Before we finish this part of our conversation, I'd love to hear one of your songs. Do you have one for us?
Speaker 3 22:22
Ah yes, absolutely. I'll choose a song from my second album, which was called The Trouble with Waking Up. And I'm very proud of this album because I actually hired session musicians to play drums, bass, and guitar.
Speaker 3 22:38
And of course it was my songs and my voice and my piano. And they did such an amazing job that I love sharing these. And the track I will get you to play is called Symmetrical Blisters.
[music plays]
Speaker 4 22:52
She was the type to never question or preach
All her low -hanging fruit was as sweet as a peach
She was the type who knew to not scratch the floors
When she's down on her knees bent on all falls
She tried too many times to walk away
And it left symmetrical blisters Symmetrical blisters
She never thought about running too fast
She's endurance not speed Built so delus
She never asked about where he would go
Thought for a while It's best not to know
She tried too many times to walk away
And it left symmetrical blisters Symmetrical blisters
You never know what's going to make you cry
And it leaves you soft but a little dry
You never know the ways you're going to fall
And when you'll get up, if you do at all
At all
One day she thinks she'd like to take a trip
Finally look at the sea, feel the sand and her grip
One day she thinks she'd like to walk through the waves
Never come back, they'd be searching for days
She tried too many times to walk away
And it left symmetrical blisters Symmetrical blisters
You can't predict the way your life will end up
She thinks it too much Sipping gin from a cup
You never know what's there until it's done
Never feel the heartbeat until there's just love Love
She tried too many times to stay behind
And it left symmetrical blisters Symmetrical blisters
[music ends]
Speaker 2 26:07
That's incredible. Thank you so much, Sarah. I've really enjoyed speaking with you, so let's continue with part two of our conversation in next week's program. Our guest on Emerging Writers today was Sarah Jane Justice, an award -winning spoken word artist, voice actor, published prose author and poet, musician and songwriter, and member of the management team at Spoken Word SA.
This program can be heard at the same time each week on Vision Australia Radio, VA Radio on Digital, online at varadio.org, and also on Vision Australia Radio podcasts, where you can catch up on earlier episodes. Thanks for listening to this Vision Australia Radio podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. Visit varadio.org for more.
Speaker 2 27:12
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