Joanne Hartstone (part 1)

ID 0:02

This is a Vision Australia radio podcast.

Matthew Erdely 0:04

On Vision Australia Radio, welcome to our conversations with emerging and experienced creative voices in our community. I'm Matthew Erdely, and our guest on today's program is Joanne Hartstone - theatre maker, actor and performer, playwright, director, producer and presenter. Joanne's website tells us that she specialises in international theater collaborations, live theatre and cabaret and immersive site-specific events. I originally interviewed Joanne in 2023 for my Artists on Earth podcast, which was reproduced here on Emerging Writers in August 2024. 

Welcome to the program. Joanne, it's great to speak with you again.

Joanne Hartstone 1:03

Yes, same. Thank you for having me. I always love our chats. This is going to be fun. Absolutely. I've been looking forward to this for a while. 

Matthew Erdely

Now. Let's get into the questions. 

Joanne Hartstone

Great. 

Matthew Erdely 

You have an impressive list of creative roles. Would you tell us the story of how you started out? What were your first roles and how did they lead to the other roles that were listed in that introduction? 

Joanne Hartstone

It sort of depends how far back you want to go, really like I could tell you that I started dancing when I was four at Debbie Thomas Dance School, but that probably doesn't count as an official role. It's more as part of my training, I guess so if you kind of skip all of my training, I went to Flinders Drama Centre and graduated from there. And after I graduated, it was time for the phone to ring, and I wasn't happy with waiting for the phone to ring, so I decided to make things happen for myself. So then I jumped into an Adelaide Fringe season, a show called Fitting Rooms by Jennifer Lusk. And it was a comedy. It was, I think there was six of us on stage, maybe seven, and that was performed at the Masonic Lodge on North Terrace. And so that was my first kind of dipping my toe in as a performer in Fringe. 

And then I moved to Sydney and decided I was going to do Fringe again, in 2008 I did it in typical style for me - I didn't just do one show, I did two. I was directing a show, and then I also wrote and performed a cabaret that I performed with a couple of my friends. So I've never really kind of just done one thing at once, and that sort of now is replicating itself with all of the hats that you announced at the beginning of this chat, that I am a performer and a playwright and a director, but also a producer and a presenter. So there's a I feel that like that beginning, where I was directing and I was writing and I was performing, is kind of now still replicating itself 20 years later.

Matthew Erdely 3:00

Yeah, you spoke of hats. 

Joanne Hatstone

I am very fashionable. Many of my friends would agree to this. 

Matthew Erdely

But out of the hats that you wear, which is your favourite hat?

Joanne Hartstone 3:11

Well, that's like saying, which is your favourite child? That's a really hard question to say. It's obviously the dog. No, I love performing. I think that's it's where I started. And creating work and performing it is really, really exciting for me, but I also happen to just be a really good producer and really good behind the scenes. So I get different satisfaction from helping other people be on stage, because it can't just always be me on stage. It has to be other people as well. And I've got these sort of special skills that I can put into work and and make things happen for other people, which I really, I really love, to be able to do that. It's... my contribution to the industry as a whole, to be able to facilitate a whole bunch of work, rather than just my own, my own thoughts and feelings on stage or or whatever, you know, play that I want to put on, etc. 

So it's, it's hard to it's hard to pick one, but I probably would go back to performing and creating artistically. And there are, there are so many, so many people out there that have no idea what they're doing. They're like, fish, fish out of water when they just get into the... industry. So to have someone like yourself would just be an absolute boon for those trying to make a career out of what you have... done. I do try and mentor as much as I can as well. I think it's really important to... pass on the flame. You know, it was passed on to me through my mentors. And I try and make sure that I do that, and then hopefully they will also pass the flame on and down it goes, through line to line.

Matthew Erdely 4:47

Could you share with us what the creative process is like when writing a show?

Joanne Hartstone 4:52

You know, this is a really hard question to answer, because there's no linear formula for it. In the past, I've actually been a bit dangerous, because I've come up with the title and registered the show before I've written it, so I've done that before, and that's a really great motivator to, you know, keep keep working, keep writing, because, you know, you've got a deadline coming up. But it's also not entirely true to say that I've just come up with the title and that I'm writing the show, because often, as I reflect, I've actually been writing a show in my head for a long time, years, even before I get the words down on on the page. 

So for example, my first solo show, The Girl Who Jumped Off the Hollywood Sign... I registered that in the 2017 Adelaide Fringe, and I hadn't yet written the script, except I'd also been writing the script in my head for a couple of years, so I knew the story I wanted to tell, and then I then I wrote it, and it was rehearsed, and we got it up in in March. But then, similarly, the following year, I wrote a show and performed a solo show called That Daring Australian Girl, which is about Muriel Matters. 

And I'd actually been... so that was in the 2018 Adelaide Fringe, but I'd actually been researching and rehearsing and having different developments of that story since 2013 - so that's a five year development period where I was going back and forth from to the UK to, you know, research, you know, I even did some development in mural matters, living room in Hastings. So, you know, I had a huge immersion into her life. And so I was doing that before I wrote The Girl Who Jumped Off the Hollywood Sign, and then came back to that daring, straining girl. So this creative process is certainly not linear. 

And my next show, I've, you know again, it will probably be, here's the title, now write the show, even though I've already been thinking about the show for a very long time. So then once you get the words on the page, then of course, it's about rehearsing it up, getting it from page to stage and making it ready for an audience. And then, Ta da! Easy, right? Simple. The thought of having a show registered for the Fringe and not having actually got a show for the Fringe, that just that terrifies me. But I think by that point, you know, you, you know, like you said, you've... the show's been gesticulating. It's been germinating over the years, and it kind of just falls into place. 

But I think I need the push. I think I need the deadline. I'm quite I really enjoy, I mean, I don't enjoy it, but I'm motivated towards getting a show ready. If I... know I've got a due date, and my track record shows that I certainly can meet those deadlines, which I think is really important as you keep going throughout your career, that you're being able to deliver consistently.

Matthew Erdely 5:18

It's wise advice, and your... definitely your background and pedigree, you know, gives you that confidence to be able to do that.

Joanne Hartstone 8:02

I had loosely written a play which has never made it to stage called Internope, the musical based off an internet provider, which I'm sure you won't be able to figure out what that is from the title, but maybe, maybe I should just, I should just register, show you in 2026 French and see how that goes. 

Matthew Erdely

Well, here's the secret. Here's the secret that people don't talk about, although it's not really a secret... you can always cancel.

Joanne Hartstone 8:31

I know, I know, I've never cancelled, but you can always cancel. If there's a problem, you can always cancel the registration and the show doesn't go on. That's the secret to all of this, you know, and the world will still turn if you have to pull out, but you don't want to, that's the thing. That's why it's such a motivating factor to have a deadline for when you're going to be doing this up on stage. And it might be that it's a work in development. When you put it on stage, that's okay too. Well. I mean, it depends on the format. If you're going into the festival, then it needs to be ready. But if you're doing it in Fringe, it can always be a work in development, and you're, you know, and also it can change every night. 

That's the beauty of live performance, is that if there's things that need to be tweaked, once you put it in front of an audience, you can tweak it. Luckily, my shows are perfect by the time they get in front of an audience, I don't need to change anything... she says with a grin. 

Matthew Erdely

Following on from the previous question, and you have touched on this already, could you share with us what the creative process is like when producing a show? 

Joanne Hartstone

Yeah, this is... interesting, actually, because do you mean creating a show from scratch, like producing a show where it hasn't existed before, or presenting a show which does already exist? Let's go with producing a show that hasn't existed before. Okay, so then it's about catching the information, in... as it manifests. So producing a show is like, you have to know the process of creating a show. You have to work with the script. You have to know what the show is about and what the requirements of the show are. But then you also have to work with the creative team to make sure that they know how they're going to be presenting it, and that you can then facilitate that presentation as carefully as possible with the... venue. 

But then it's also about selling a show that doesn't exist. And this is a little little bit tricky, because how do you sell something that doesn't exist? So really, you're selling the idea of something, and you have to kind of pre-plan assets, photography and film and music and those sorts of things, you have to pre-plan before it's been created, so that you've got something to sell the show with. So as a producer, you have to remind the team, We need photography, we need... those sorts of things in there. So then it's also about catching things as they emerge. So, oh, this show needs a projector, right? Better speak to the venue about that, or this show suddenly needs a cast of 17. Where are we going to get the budget from that? And we can't have a cast of 17. Sorry, I'm calling veto. Characters need to double up or triple up. 

So as a producer, you're also creatively involved in the discussions when it pertains to budget and logistics and actualization. So you have to, you have to kind of both be the reins holder and also the facilitator, and then you have to scoop up things as as they come through the process. It's quite interesting.

Matthew Erdely 11:43

Thank you for allowing me to enjoy this TED talk.

Joanne Hartstone 11:47

Yeah, it doesn't mean I'm talking too much. Was that... a slay insult?

Matthew Erdely 11:52

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. We're great friends, for anyone wondering, for anyone listening, for everyone that's listening at home, wherever you may be, where you've known each other for a long time, so absolutely not. And now we are going to interlude with a musical excerpt from Joanne's Fringe program.

(Song)  12:11

You're singing in purple, you're standing in red air, his smile shines out yellows and gold thread in your head and your eyes of flashes and the amber, bronze and blue. You colour a rainbow, every gentle hue. Colour me in some, not just black and white. Colour me in some, not just black and white. Dark and white because your edges are gilted like the finest looking star. Your church is silver. I'm packing my bags and leaving, my shadows are shimmers of sighing and cold, and I'm drunk on colour and I'm drunk on soul. I'm drunk on sound. Colour me some, not just black and white. Colour me some, not just black and white. Colour me some, not just black and white. Colour me, colour me.So I'm not just black and white.

Matthew Erdely 14:59

Let's move on. On to the next question. You're a seasoned performer who has performed all over the world as a solo artist and as part of ensemble casts. Now this is a two part question. Part A, what is your favorite seasoning to use when you make food at home? And B, what's it like performing as a solo artist compared to performing with stage partners? 

Joanne Hartstone

Seasoning... I don't know, white pepper. I'm gonna say white pepper. There you go. Do I have to explain why? 

Matthew Erdely

No, that's a bold choice, and white pepper speaks for itself. 

Joanne Hatstone

Yeah? Like, why would you not use and anyone who's not using white pepper, get some white pepper. Remind you of your grandmother. And then the second question, remind me again? 

Matthew Erdely

What's it like performing as a solo artist compared to performing with stage partners?

Joanne Hartstone 15:54

So I feel that it's a bit more dangerous in some ways and easier in some ways. That's a really open question, isn't it? Open answer. So as a solo artist, you only have yourself in the audience and then the other elements of the show to react to. So often, if I'm performing myself, I will be reacting to myself, I'll be reacting to the audience, I'll be reacting to the sound I'll be reacting to the lights or the or the stage, the sets, the props, that sort of thing. But no other humans in there, which means it's mostly in my control, unless the audience starts to do something totally weird. That rarely happens. 

But then when you're on stage with other people, it means that you can react to them, and you're all sharing the burden of driving the show forward, and you know you have to do your bit, but you can also then be reliant on the others. But then the caveat is, well, what if they do something unreliable? I've been described in the past as being very reliable on stage, like, even as a solo performer, I, like, I've been told that when I perform, I hit my marks within like, you know, a couple of centimetres, and it's the same modulations and the set, you know, even though there's, I think there's ever so slight differences, because it's always, it's always fresh. 

But I've been told I'm a very like... wind her up, and she's a robot, and she does the same thing over and over again, you know. And I think that's part of my dance training, actually, is that part of me remembers shows as choreography, even though it's like, emotional choreography and focal choreography. There's like, there's a way to do it. But when you're on stage with other people, they might not be reliable. They might do something completely different overnight, and it's your job to stay reactive to that. So there's danger in being by yourself, it's scary. You've only got yourself to rely on and the lights and, you know, in the audience, but when you're on stage with other people, you've really got that, that extra energy. 

So you don't have to, you don't have to carry the whole thing on your shoulders. But they could also, they could also make a mistake that's terrifying. Okay?

Matthew Erdely 18:27

On Vision Australia radio, you're listening to our conversation program, emerging writers. Our guest today is Joanne Hartstone - theatre maker, actor and performer, playwright, director, producer and presenter.

Joanne Hartstone 18:43

I've seen... solo shows, and I've seen shows with ensemble casts, and they're both from an audience perspective. They both can be incredible. They both can be amazing. But if I had to pick out of the two like I would love to... do a solo show, I have... because I think that extra work and that extra pressure, I think would correlate to just that, possibly an even greater, greater height. You did it, you did it yourself. You did it your way. There's only you on stage, but then when having a cast there, like having sharing, sharing in producing and putting on a piece of work is also pretty wonderful. You know what? I'm Switzerland, I have, I can't decide well, and nor should you. Actually, I think that's the joy of it. You shouldn't have to choose. You can have your cake and eat it too.

Matthew Erdely 19:31

Speaking of cake, what's your favourite kind of cake?

Joanne Hartstone 19:35

Oh, you're asking the hard questions here. You know, I love a red velvet cake. Actually, I know, I know, with, like, the... white cream cheese icing, I think that's absolutely delicious. I also actually really like a light vanilla cake, you know, with, with stuff, does ice cream cake count? I love ice cream cake. I love all cake, just cake. Much. Let's go with my first answer.

Matthew Erdely 20:03

All right, we're going to, just going to take a five minute break to go and find ourselves some cake will be excellent. We'll be back shortly. Now, let's, let's move on. I'd like to have some fun and do some word association. I will throw some words out there. And we'd love for you to say the first thing that comes to mind, are you ready? Yes. Okay, here we go, musical theatre.

Joanne Hartstone 20:29

Jazz hands, acting emotion, performing hard.

Matthew Erdely 20:34

Writing.

Joanne Hartstone 20:36

Freeing bananas.

Matthew Erdely 20:38

Yuck, aside from the last aside from the last, aside from the last, I think that was all pretty amazing. Let's, let's keep, let's keep the show going. Of all the performances I've personally seen you in, my favourite was That Daring Australian Girl - the nuance, the acting expressions, stage production loved it all. Would you tell our audience what was your favorite show to perform in, and why?

Joanne Hartstone 21:05

Again, you're asking, which is my favourite child? You can't do this to me, Matthew, this is mean.

Matthew Erdely 21:13

Do you have a favorite child?

Joanne Hartstone 21:18

Only have one, but the dog still counts as well. No, I don't.

Matthew Erdely 21:27

Are you... choosing to plead the fifth on that question?

Joanne Hartstone 21:30

The reason I love my shows, I can tell you why I love my shows individually. I guess is that probably a better answer for that? Because there can't just be one. I also love That Daring Australian Girl. The reason I love that is because of the main character, Muriel Matters, who was a real person, and she did incredible things in her life, and it's a real privilege to be able to share her story. And it was, you know, it was a show that I researched for a long time, and I really felt an affinity with Muriel and her and what she worked towards in her life, which was equality and better living conditions for people, and the use of politics and government as a way forward for society, but also utilising her natural talents, like a speaking voice, her elocution, her performance and her performative ways. 

And she was a very clever, clever woman. And of the time, she was a real trailblazer. And she was daring, hence the title. You know, she did daring things, and she was willing to put her body on the line in a relatively safe way. You know, she flew in a... hot air balloon. This was before the Wright Brothers came along with with airplanes, and she crash landed a hot air balloon as a stunt for the suffrage movement. She went to jail, and was in jail for 30 days when she chained herself to the grill in the women's viewing gallery in the House of Commons. And that was a huge thing. You know, she was the first woman recorded to have spoken in the UK House of Commons. Like, what an amazing woman. 

So that's one of the reasons I love performing That Daring Australian Girl... and very proud of the show The Reichstag is Burning, is another of my solo shows, and the reason I really loved that one was being able to really sing and get into the genre of cabaret and explore what that meant to me and look at that through a historical context. And some of those songs in there were really, really amazing to sing. And it was a show of its time. It probably won't come back again, but it was, it was also timeless, because it was about the downfall of the Weimar Republic and the knock-on effect that that had to cabaret within... the uprising of the Third Reich. So, you know, that was great. 

The Girl Who Jumped Off the Hollywood Sign was my first solo show that I didn't and in some ways that means a lot to me, just by itself. But it was, it is a show about an actress who wants to to make work, who wants to be seen in the Hollywood system. And that obviously came from somewhere within even though it's not about me, it's about a character called Evie Edwards, and that was the first time that I wrote something performed on stage. And the reaction was so overwhelming that I felt really confident in my abilities, that I knew I had, but then putting it out and... having the reaction that it did, you know, immediately, it went really, really well. 

So, and then I was able to tour that around the world. I got the chance to take it to Hollywood. I got to climb the Hollywood sign and do a photo shoot up there. And, you know, it was, it was really, quite, quite an amazing launch of the next phase of my career. But the reason I love performing, it is because the story is so human and so so inherently human of someone who just wants to be noticed and is on the edge of the edge of existence, through this desire, through everything that she's been working towards, and how quickly it can be taken away with just a few words from people in a position of power. So it's, um, gosh, I love I love them all, really my solo shows, but... and there'll be more to come, I have no doubt, and I'll love each of them just as much.

Matthew Erdely 25:42

Thank you so much, Joanne. This is a great conversation. So let's continue with part two in next week's program. Our guest on Emerging Writers today was Joanne Hartstone - theatre maker, actor and performer, playwright, director, producer and presenter. 

This program is produced in our Adelaide studios, and can be heard at the same time each week here on Vision Australia radio, VA radio, on digital, online at varadio.org, and also on Vision Australia Radio Podcast, where you can catch up on earlier episodes. Thanks for listening to this vision, Australia radio podcast. Don't forget to subscribe on your preferred podcast platform. Visit VA radio.org for more.

ID 26:43

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