Adult entertainment, products and services

00:03

S1

Nothing's off limits. It's off limits. Bringing together experts and people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love to avoid but absolutely need to talk about made with the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grants, including grants.

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S2

Hello and welcome to the show, and nothing's off limits, my name is Test and my wonderful co-host Polly and I are continuing to delve into the treacherous terrain of some of those topics, which you might normally consider off limits, including identity, adult entertainment and more. We'll be discussing them openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and low vision with the help of our expert guests.

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This podcast is available to be downloaded on the Vision Australia website, and you can find out more information about where to find our web page at the end of the show. But in this episode, we're talking about adult entertainment products and services. Now we know this is a subject which many definitely see as off-limits, but it really doesn't have to be. That said, if you have younger children in the room or this just isn't your thing, you might want to go and listen to half an hour of something else. Stay with us. OK, we're super excited to be talking about this.

01:18

S2

We certainly are following. We've been looking forward to it for weeks,

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S3

so we should start by saying that every adult has a right to access adult entertainment products and services that include sex toys, adult movies and sex workers. However, it can be difficult for people who are blind or have low vision to purchase the products and services they want independently and if they like anonymously. Also, adult movies are not always, in fact rarely audio described, and people who are blind or have low vision are often not provided with adequate information about sex and adult entertainments. So to help us address some of these challenges, we have a couple of fabulous guests who have lived experience in this area and so many insights and strategies to share with us. But first, we asked you if you think adult entertainment services and products are accessible and we got some really interesting answers.

02:12

S1

Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly and Polly. Every adult has the right to access adult entertainment services and products. Do you think they are accessible? I haven't

02:28

S4

asked. Use them from personal experience, but I'm happy to help people if they need some advice or some guide.

02:34

S1

Do you find this is the kind of thing that comes up in conversation within the black community?

02:38

S5

It has from time

02:39

S4

to time with some of my younger my friends around surfing the internet and jumping online, and I say it because they're not very accessible for my experience in my younger days. I think adult entertainment services are accessible.

02:53

S6

Probably not. A lot is now. If you think about where you might get it from it, it'd be nice if they all had audio description. They generally

03:00

S2

don't.

03:03

S1

You don't have to answer it if you don't want to. I can't say I've got too much experience with that particular topic, but I know there's quite a few people who probably would

03:14

S5

find it rather difficult

03:16

S7

accessing adult entertainment services. That's a tricky one. I suppose we could start a campaign about audio description in gentlemen's bars, but I'm not sure how well that would go down with my bosses when I'm doing my gentleman browsing. I find it very easy to tap three times on the front of my phone and zoom in for any details I need.

03:36

S8

Yeah, I think because the community doesn't talk about it, that openly. And then there's probably lots of information out there that could be accessible that people don't necessarily know. And even if you go into adult shop, you can go into adult shops and get help. But you often can't actually touch things because they're all packaged up and that kind of stuff, you know, because lots of information, whether it's adult related or not, is still inaccessible in the world. That's just part of a bigger world of inaccessible information.

04:06

S9

Definitely. I think they have a right to. And I think as I often if you have a disability, I think it may be common to all disabilities. But I see I only have a vision disability. People kind of tend to see you as non-sexual. All of a sudden, you can't be both. I think that needs to change, and I think everyone has access to these things. But I don't know necessarily whether I agree that should be disbanded. I think it might cross into that thing of anyone else in the community that wanted to access something

04:38

S5

like that would be paying for it themselves.

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S1

You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're Tess and Polly. Produced by Vision Australia Radio,

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it's time to welcome our first guest, Sara Taylor. Sarah has low vision and is a passionate advocate for people who are blind or have low vision to be seen as sexual beings in the wider community. Sarah, thanks so much for coming on and sharing your insights on this difficult topic.

05:04

S10

Thank you. I'm so excited, although that might be a bad choice of words for this topic. So is it all clear?

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S3

How would you describe adult entertainment services and products? That's the kind of the cover all we used for the for the episode title. What does that mean to you?

05:20

S10

With my experience, I have considered. Hiring sex workers, although I haven't actually gone into that area in any more depth and that I do use adult products, so I have been online shopping. I have two children, so I have had an active sex life

05:36

S3

at least twice. And do you think the people who are blind or have low vision have adequate access to information about adult entertainment services and products?

05:48

S10

I'm not sure if it's any more or less accessible than a lot of other services that we have. I think a lot of other services, we kind of drive the accessibility, so I'm not sure that we're driving that in this space, though it would be good to see people kind of pushing for emailing the service and saying, Look, can we get access more features?

06:09

S3

Why do you think the lack of drive comes from

06:11

S10

probably the stigma around being associated with wanting those services? I would imagine.

06:16

S3

And there is a stigma you think around talking about what sex and the blindness and motivation community.

06:22

S10

Look, I think you're asking the wrong person because I am more than comfortable to have this conversation. But I do think for some people, it can be a bit like it. Just in general, people find it icky or don't feel comfortable discussing it. And then, you know, adding to that, so a support worker or someone or your parents can get a bit tricky.

06:43

S2

Sarah, do you think there's such a thing as a normal sex life? I mean, normal is a weird word, isn't it?

06:50

S10

Within our community, we're kind of used to doing things a little bit differently, and I think that those kind of translate into the bedroom. I find people are a bit more adventurous when you when you're used to having to do things differently. Not that there's anything wrong with normal, but it's good to be a little bit different,

07:08

S3

I guess is about finding what works for you and what's comfortable for you. That's your normal bearing in mind. You've said that you're really comfortable talking about these things, even with that level of comfort yourself. Have you faced any barriers while you're trying to access, say, adult entertainment?

07:23

S10

Well, it's funny because I'm low vision so I can use Zoom and I can get close and I can have narrators read product descriptions and things like that. So for myself, not so much. I have heard it said with people who are blind, preferring to use text rather than the visual when it comes to movies and stories. Although it's not very arousing to, he draws narrate the whole thing for you.

07:52

S3

And what do you think could be done then to make it easier for people who are blind or have low vision to access some of the products? So let's say a sex shop where there's lots of different things and we were talking before about how challenging it can be about, you know, going into a place that you might not necessarily know and being able to go in independently.

08:12

S10

I was interested in these things when I was a bit younger, and it's easier, I think when you're bit younger to go in with a group of friends. So we'd be walking down the street and passing shop and I'd be like, Let's just can we just go in there and check it out? And so for me, it was more of like going to a museum and having to look around and see what is available, and it was more of a reconnaissance. You can also shop online, which gives you a bit more anonymity and you can get the product descriptions and things like that, although you don't get to kind of hold them and touch them and feel the size which you can do in a shop.

08:42

S3

That's great advice. Yeah, that's that's really good advice, and I think that was really fun what you were saying about going on with your friends as well. You know, it's it's not something we should be embarrassed about. And if you are a bit embarrassed, while loft is always the best way to kind of get past that, so maybe just make it a fun experience going all in together. Thinking back when you were start of your journey, would you wish you had known about sex? What are some of the things which, looking back now you think would really have helped your journey?

09:10

S10

So I was comfortable talking about sex kind of earlier on, and I did kind of grow up comfortable with sex, so it wasn't too difficult for me. I think I had that interest in exploring the shops and things like that. I think going on campus would be visually impaired with other visually impaired teens. I don't think sex was a problem, but there was a lot of cuddling and things going on, so I don't think there's too much of a stigma around it.

09:41

S2

I completely agree with you, Sarah, when it came to those camps, for people who are blind or have low vision, physical affection was was certainly on the cards.

09:51

S10

And look, I do have a theory around that like, maybe you want to feel included and you want to feel that love and you want to feel that connection. So I do think sex takes a lot of those boxes for people.

10:03

S3

And thinking about teenage encounters brings me on to a really relevant question because there's having sex and there's enjoying sex. If you want to explore some of the options available to make sex more pleasurable, and that's a really personal thing. But how could? You start finding out what works for you.

10:24

S10

Self-examination is a really good place to start. There are studies that show the more experience you have with yourself, the better you are as a partner and the the more enjoyable sex.

10:37

S3

So it's masturbation.

10:38

S10

Absolutely. Definitely. It's easier to explain to a partner kind of what what feels good when you know, already it actually helps your sex life?

10:47

S3

That's fantastic advice. Sarah, when Tess introduced you, she talked about your real passion for people who are blind or have low vision to be seen as sexual beings by the wider community. Do you think that society doesn't see people as sexual beings at the moment?

11:04

S10

I think people with disabilities in general are terribly seen as being sexual beings, and so I think that we are still human and is definitely a human driver just as hunger or thirst. And I want to see people with disabilities enjoying that space.

11:19

S3

Is it something that you go out and talk about? How do you kind of start breaking down some of those misconceptions?

11:25

S10

I did hear of a lady who had physical impairments and her aunt took her up to the bedroom and fully clothed and helped her work out what positions were comfortable for her and her body type. I think our vision, we are a lot more tactile, so I think that does that can translate into the bedroom. So just being aware of what your strengths are?

11:45

S3

Oh, that's a wonderful note to leave it on, Sarah. Thank you so much. This has been such a fun but also really interesting conversation, and I can't thank you enough for sharing your insights with us.

11:58

S10

No, it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much. Take care. I think, Sarah,

12:03

S1

thanks for listening to Nothing's off limits. My Vision Australia radio. Did you know there are many ways you can listen to our wide range of podcasts, including this one search in this country radio and iTunes or Spotify, playing our latest podcasts on our radio home page and the radio dot org. All the same, provide the Vision Australia website Vision Australia dot org Aussies with a print disability. Access our Vision Australia Audio Library to where you can listen to our full range of podcasts on an accessible device. Learn more about our library and our various services and Vision Australia dot org.

12:41

S3

I'd now like to introduce our second guest, Bianca Petrick. Bianca is blind and is here to share some useful insights and strategies to help people access the adult entertainment, services and products that meet their individual needs. Bianca, it's great to have you back when you so much for being here.

12:58

S5

Thanks for having me. Bianca, do you think

13:00

S2

people who are blind or have low vision have adequate access to sex education?

13:05

S3

No question.

13:11

S2

In what way do you think it's inadequate?

13:13

S5

Well, let me start by saying that most of the stuff is visual and the diagrams that we are given. All the models we are given are 3D meant to be true. They're not large enough to what's actually there that we have an idea of what's going on. I know people, I kid you not. They had no idea what to expect when about to experience a sexual situation with someone of the opposite sex. I've had this with with guys. They had no idea what girls bits look like. No clue. Everything from concentric circles to no one told me it was round. I mean, stuff that you just don't know if you can't have any access. If you can't feel it. You don't know what to expect. I even had people have issues with the idea that it was messy.

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S2

It hearing you, Bianca, makes me feel very glad I'm a lesbian and I know where everything is and what things are so always, always going. It doesn't matter whether or not I have an adequate sex education. Where would you advise people to go to find reliable information about sex?

14:19

S5

You can get all kinds of information everywhere. But what? People are left as a points of reference, right? If you can't see anything, you're lacking any point of reference possible unless it's yourself. I mean, you can get stuff on the net. Whatever all the blogs, you can get adequate information from, from good sex blogs and all that kind of thing. But what you cannot get is a point of reference.

14:40

S2

So perhaps then is it about talking to people, you know, finding those safe spaces to talk and perhaps share any information that each other have have picked up? If if the information on the internet is not quite

14:53

S5

good, that's only part of it. You've got to get people touching things. That might mean that someone buys a model of, you know, a realistic dildo or a realistic vulva. Or, you know, I've even heard of these vulva puppets in England. I've seen one, they're really cool, and I think people actually need to be given the stuff in physical and people don't like that. If someone says, I said, Oh no, no, no, we can't do that. But yet? What people need. I need a physical point of reference to know exactly what it is people are talking about because it doesn't matter how well you describe. If there's no point of reference, they're not going to understand.

15:33

S2

So in order to find things where you can do that exploration, you might visit an adult shop.

15:41

S5

You probably want to go to one where it's where the people are passionate about what they do. Maybe like the single type shops where it's really important to the owners of the shop or to the workers at the shop that the customers have a good experience and not just the chain place where someone works. And it's like, Oh yeah, this is a job like every other job.

16:06

S2

So what would you suggest, then, for somebody who's blind or has low vision who maybe hasn't been into an adult shop before? But what would you suggest they do if they want to explore that independently?

16:19

S5

Well, I would suggest doing your research and finding out which adult shops in the area and when you do that, give them a ring and talk to the people that are working there, actually make contact with the shops and find out what the people there are like. Either give them a ring or give them an email and then a ring or make contact. And then when you explain your situation and you find out who's willing to actually go that extra distance for you.

16:49

S2

I always wondered if I wanted to go into an adult shop, how I would do that independently, because I certainly I mean, there's a couple of friends I have who might consider going with me, but I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable taking a support worker and probably not a member of my family. So it's it's a tricky one, isn't it? It sounds like it is about sort of that preparation.

17:11

S5

I'm lucky I'm self-managed, and I have support workers that I've known for a long time on people that I've known, and then I've had them as support workers. So I know someone who is very sexually liberated. And when I've, I took someone to a sex shop with her and I'm like, OK, we're doing this. And, you know, and she understood the material really well as well. So she helped this person to just see what everything was. And this is a dildo. This is a one big wheels. This is a flashlight showing this person everything possible so that they had had their points of reference. So they knew what everything was. And I was lucky. But if you want to do it by yourself, then do the research, talk to the people at the shops, ask them if they would be willing. And if you know, if you get a really unfriendly person and you know not to go to that shop, you do it like you do every other shop. If you want to go to a good stereo shop, you look around and you find out, you know, a good pet shop or a good gourmet food shop. It's basically you want to know who's good enough to get your business.

18:10

S2

Absolutely. And then I suppose you can establish a good relationship with the manager or owner or person who works in the adult shop. And then you can sort of, you know, like you might have your regular supermarket or a regular guy that you go to and feel comfortable. You can establish a regular relationship with them.

18:28

S5

Yeah, exactly

18:30

S2

what you said about research is very important because I'm thinking that unless you've been to an adult shop before, there are going to be a whole lot of options because there are a lot of options available out there these days. Yes. Yes. Pleasurable. You might not know about any of these options if you haven't researched. You might go in to buy one thing and then, you know, there might be all these other things, but you just never heard of them that can be challenging.

18:54

S5

There's also stuff about body safety silicone abs, plastic, glass, wood that's treated not with students, isn't it? And stuff and stainless steel, they're safe, but anything else. Some of the stuff is porous, and it's not very good for you. Some people get like burning genitals and that sort of thing. So that's another thing that people, a lot of people don't know that and also certain ribs with nasties in them. So yeah, it's a minefield. And the other thing is, yes, you can buy stuff online, but in order to do that, you're going to want a point of reference. So you're going to probably want to go to a shop once or twice and get the things you want. And if you have a certain lube or whatever, you can go to places like Lovehoney or I'm not, I'm not selling that or an adult shop to come today. You or like places like that online where you can get your products if you know exactly what you want.

19:46

S3

You mentioned about going into the Shop B, and I'm just thinking about that. That kind of physical, tactile point of reference you mentioned if you went into a shop, are there things on display that you can touch and feel and explore? Or is everything packed away in boxes?

20:00

S5

There are things on display and the person that if they're a good shop worker person, they will take stuff out for you. So don't be afraid, then we'll give you things. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Do not be afraid to ask. Definitely. Don't be afraid to ask. People will do it. And if they act like it's a big favor, go to another place.

20:22

S2

Bianca, have you filmed adult movies to be accessible to people who are blind or have low vision in your experience?

20:29

S5

Well, they're a bit interesting because a lot of them don't have much in terms of awareness. There's a lot of music. Some of them have, like some of them clips and some of them have sound. And you sort of have a bit of an idea if they're the usual mainstream. First, you have a role and then you have your PIV and then you have maybe I know and know that, and it's sort of in this big, like predictable routine with the mainstream stuff. Yes, there's audio described porn. It is awkward just just saying, you know, it's awkward their

21:00

S2

platforms you can go to to access the

21:03

S5

audio described porn. I think Pornhub has it, but they're not always very ethical with their stars and stuff. There's also some porn that's like not the mainstream, where people are trying to be ethical places like crash pad series and pink TV and places like that. The problem I had with those places because you have no idea what's going on because you don't have it described, you literally don't know what's happening. And sometimes they have like different gender bending stuff going on different voices. You don't know who's who. Like, there was one where it was. I think it was Tina and Roger and Roger did not have a what I know as a man's voice. So I had no idea who was who. And there was all kinds of contexts that you just didn't know if you didn't see it. The only way I knew about it was was what was reading a review by Girly Juice on the crash 10 series stuff, knowing all the context. That's the only reason because I read the review.

22:00

S2

What are some challenges that come with accessing sex workers or brothels? If you're blind or you have low vision

22:07

S5

kink, one of the biggest challenges that people face and I haven't had to access a brothel or sex work, but I've spoken to a lot of people who have and a lot of the problem that a lot of people have is that they have this thing of I've got to take what I'm given. So they end up with people who don't fit their needs. They don't feel comfortable disclosing their kinks. They don't feel comfortable disclosing things like, I need someone who speaks English so that I can have communication and know that I know that it's all consenting because people aren't going to think about that. People think they should be grateful for what they're given, and the people choosing the worker for them thinks that who in a way, it's like all this. You know, we'll just get this person, you know, get them off and running sort of thing. And they don't think about like sitting down, having a talk with the person asking exactly what they want or need.

23:03

S2

Yes. Yes, I see. So in order to overcome those challenges, you simply don't have first hand experience. But from talking to others who do

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S5

what

23:14

S2

you suggest to people who are new to accessing sex workers and going to Brussels,

23:20

S5

I would suggest write out a list of the things that are absolutely mandatory, right? And the things that are like would be nice and the things that are not OK because there are things that people like. If I went to a sex worker, for example, there are certain voices, an extensible squeak me out. Yes. If I, you know, if I had to deal with that, I would not be able to get messy. Like, it just wouldn't happen. And I know it. That would literally not be able to write because, yeah, her voice is gross. And what do you do? Like, what do you say you've been given this person and say, I can't, you know, inside a person can pick and choose, but it's kind of this thing of like, you're disabled, you get what you're given and be grateful. It's like a disabled person doesn't have the same rights to sex that an able bodied person has, and it's not okay.

24:11

S3

Bianca, that's great advice. And I think that agency point is a it's a really powerful point to make. What are some strategies you can use to make sure you have that agency around safety and making sure that you're safe and comfortable while participating in sex with a regular partner and you partner with the sex worker, whatever that might be? How can you take control of your safety?

24:31

S5

Safe calls are absolutely essential. Make sure you have a person that you can call at a certain time to say, Look, I'm OK, I'm totally, you know, nothing wrong or have a code so that if there is a problem, you can say something like, Gee, that steak tastes really good or something like that, and the person knows you don't eat steak, so they know it's a problem. Gotcha. Also discuss safety concerns beforehand and go to a place where you are able to get there and get back independently. Taking over, make that as part of your thing. Don't have them take you back home so they know where you live. Things like that. Make sure that you have control of your transport. Make sure you have control that there will be condoms used. This is the contraception. I'm using have those talks beforehand, also like when it's about kink. Make sure you have safe words in place green, yellow and red or potato or whatever. If you say that it's totally not OK, things like that, you've make sure that you have no list like hard limits. I don't want this. And if you try to get around my nose and I'm not doing any more with you so that you can be in a position of trust with the person because that stuff's really important as well. Comfortable. Yeah, just make sure you know, like you're able to have as much control and agency of the situation as you possibly can.

25:58

S2

Bianca, I think that is a fantastic note to end on that. Some wonderful strategies there. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing such wonderful insights.

26:07

S5

Thanks for having me.

26:08

S3

And this is just the start of the conversation about adult services and entertainment. More information and some useful resources can be found on the Vision Australia website, including a link to an adult shop, which provides detailed descriptions of their sex toys to make them more accessible.

26:24

S2

Remember, each episode of Nothing's Off Limits is available to download from the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org type. Nothing's off limits into the search engine, and you'll be directed to our fabulous web page where you can listen to this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any or if you prefer. Because let's face it, no one likes having to search for too many things on the internet. You can just tune in via Vision Australia radio, and

26:53

S3

next time we'll be talking about being not blind enough and you'll find out exactly what that means and hear from a panel of great guests with a wealth of insights on the topic. But until then, thank you again to our fantastic guests and thank you to you for joining us for the show where nothing's off limits.

27:16

S1

That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant. Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio, dot org and access all there is to know about our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode, but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support, so please share this podcast with just one person today and brighten our day or rate us on your preferred podcast platform. Bye for now.