Personal Care

00:03

S1 (Speaker 1)

Nothing's Off Limits. Bringing together experts and people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love to avoid, but absolutely need to talk about me with the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grants, including grants.

S2

Hello, and welcome to this fourth episode of Nothing's Off Limits. My name is Tess and together with my co-host Polly. We're continuing to delve into some of those topics which you might normally consider off limits, including body image and appearance, relationships, dating and identity, and much more. We'll be exploring them openly and honestly through the specific lens of blindness and low vision with the help of expert guests.

S3

Tess, I think regardless of age or experience, you know, the whole thing around menstruation is a real challenge. Do you think the challenge is greater for people with a disability?

S2

Look, I can really only speak to my personal experience, but I remember even being, you know, in my mid to late 20s and finding it very daunting having to go into the supermarket, my local supermarket that was mainly run run by men and having to ask them if I had any pads, you know I did. I felt it. You know, if I had a terrible stigma around, I couldn't just go and have a browse and then pay for them. I ended up actually having to get friends to go in for me because the embarrassment got too much. So I do think there are a whole lot of challenges which we'll talk about in this episode.

S3

And to help us address some of those challenges, we have a lineup of great guests, all coming with a wealth of insights on this topic. But first, we asked you how you manage your personal care and any difficulties that you've come up against, and we've got some really interesting answers.

S1

Nothing's off limits. With Tess and Polly Polly, personal hygiene is a very personal thing. But when it comes to hygiene, what do you think we should be talking about as a community

S4

in the current climate is why it was such a surprise for everyone to start washing your hands after you went to the toilet at befuddles me that the conversation we have to have with the community, there's just creepy. I can't believe that we had the produce marketing materials to remind people to wash their hands.

S5

Well, I guess over the last 12 months, washing hands has been front and centre. But I guess there are other things such as oral hygiene, which can also help with things like chocolate and just things like body odor and having the ability to be able to have a regular shower. I think the issues are pretty much the same when it comes to hygiene because I guess we're going to listen pat or probably got a heightened sense of smell. So there's any bad body I do. I can probably pick it up, maybe more than others. And from a personal point of view, I can smell themselves as well.

S6

It's more challenging because the metre and a half roll, etc. is difficult for us to navigate. And quite frankly, it's something that as much as you can try and accommodate it, you can't really. It's challenging when you, for example, have to queue up in a bank and they make you sit down using the sanitizers, being able to find it in some instances, or making sure you carry around the issues of wearing masks.

S1

Accessible shaving equipment for men. More accessible was that men who are blind or have low vision can shave.

S4

I think we should be talking about women's health as a community. I also think we should be talking about sexual activity.

S7

When you're in the blind community, seeing you don't have that sense of seeing, but you do have other senses that you use. So to me, smell is always really important. So the importance of deodorants, perfumes, those sorts of things that can also be a great identifier for in this community. People know you often play a scent being conscious of what other people might see in terms of hygiene and how you need to take care of that and make sure you know your hair is shiny, your fingernails are clean. We need to be conscious of what other people are saying, even if we're not seeing it.

S8

Personal hygiene. This is a tricky one to say, but I have noticed in my blind, low vision community there are some people that have challenges with this, and I think it can often be politically incorrect to say something to them about it. But I really think it's important to give you have no vision.

S2

Then there's lots of stuff going on that you may not be aware of unless you and if someone just pointed out to you.

S1

You're listening to nothing's off limits. We're tense and poorly. Produced by Vision Australia radio.

04:38

S2

I'd now like to introduce Ms. Schmidt. Emma May is blind and is a music teacher living in Melbourne. She has written a book called The Blind Girl's Guide to Puberty and is here to tell us all about this MMI. Thanks for being here.

S8

Thanks, Jeff. Thanks for having me. 

S2

What made you decide to write a book about puberty?

S8

Well, when I was a teenager and sort of late primary school pre-teen teenage years, we we covered a lot of things at Camp Sloane camp support skills. They would talk about social skills and talk about self advocacy. I'd even talk about presentation a little bit, but no one really talked about puberty and grooming and things. And I found that pretty odd because I would have thought it was quite important, especially for blind girls, and my family was quite open about a lot of it. But at the same time, I just didn't know what it really would feel like. 

So, for instance, of the period, I sort of set off, what if I'm out and there's just this kind of eruption of blood everywhere. And, you know, I thought I was going to be pretty messy and everyone else at school got to look at pictures and we didn't get any pictures. Sometimes I do a kind of 2D representation, but it didn't really help, and I was always a little bit curious about female anatomy and stuff, so I wanted to know what it looked like. And so I kind of realised that it wasn't just me that didn't quite know what was going on. 

So I thought, Well, why don't I brought a few ideas as to what things feel like, how things work? And it's really not that bad because no one else seems to be talking about this, of course.

S2

And I've been to those blind cats myself, and you were absolutely right. It didn't get mentioned. It is not a fun time. If you're a pre-teen, is it? You know, all these changes are happening into your body

S8

and you feel like all your school friends get to know.

S2

Of course. Of course. You know, I have a vivid memory of being 16 and my my best friend teaching me teaching me how to use iPad. So you just didn't get that education unless you got it through friends and through talking about, is this wonderful book of yours? What areas does it cover? What a detail does it go into?

S8

It's a little bit about me in that it has a verbal description of the female reproductive system, so it talks about the uterus being shaped like a pear, which we were told in school. But it's not that helpful to see. One thinks that the fallopian tubes and eggs sort of travel down to the uterus, fertilise a baby or release them when you have your period when it and. But it only goes into that little bit of detail because I say when you describe it, it's difficult. 

So what I then suggest is that you can you can access life [indistinct] Vision Australia used to have them, actually. I think that's still the case, but they're very handy if you can get a 3D idea of what you look like. The other reason I did that was because male reproductive organs are external as a not. So it's, you know, if you want an idea of how everything works, it's it's a good way to look at it. And then I talk a bit about bras, because putting a bra on when you are training bras is a little bit fiddly.

S2

It's terrifying.

S8

It's a little bit. So I have it again. I have a little verbal descriptions of how to actually do it. So I did that and took about what looks like and then had a little bit of that going for a fitting with a bra. Yes. Then we talk about the main sort of topic, I guess, with the book, which is menstruation and periods. So then I'm going to have to put on a pad right from the start. 

So how to open up the package and take it out unfolded and put it on, and they're going to have to put in a tampon because another thing came up quite a bit in the discussion is just recently with some friends, but even with me, it's just sort of odd. I just don't wear one. My friends had to help me at the beach. I just I just didn't want to do it. And actually, if you want to go swimming, you kind of need to. I thought, Well, why not describe how to do it? A lot of people do. It's just too hard. 

So I went into detail about how to insert one and then I go into sort of cleaning up after yourself. So taking, you know, taking the pad off like pipeline out and where to put the most public toilets have been next to the toilet. I wasn't sure if girls were aware of that, so I mentioned it and then I did a little bit at the end about soaking. If you get a bit on your knickers or your sheets and keep getting a little cleaning everything up...

S2

That's the book. Yes, it sounds like you said it was so many wonderful, so many wonderful details in the book about how to do things that you might not have thought you were able to do, which are, I think it's a book that I would have loved to have read when when I was younger would be a key piece of advice, as it sounds to me like you've had experience talking to younger women about going through puberty. What's a key piece of advice that you would give somebody who's just starting puberty?

S8

I think the key piece I would. Gives them more information, and the more straight sort of straight talking you are about it, the less bad it will sound because it's less mysterious and so especially for parents safe and cited parents. My advice would be try and think of everything that you didn't have to think of.

So it's all very well to say that blood's going to come out of your vagina. It means you're growing up. And also, you get breasts and you'll have to start wearing bras. But try and think of things like when you're out and you go into a public toilet, there's going to be being next to it or give them warning signs like give them as much information as you can. So the more information you give, the less bad and scary will actually seem to be the main thing. That was the main reason I wrote the book, actually.

10:16

S2

I think that's a fantastic way to end on - and Emma, thank you so, so much for chatting to us today. It's been a real pleasure.

S8

Thank you for having me.

S2

It's time to welcome our second guest, Bianca Patrick. Bianca is blind and has lived experience of managing menstruation. Bianca has a wealth of fascinating insights to share with us on this topic. Bianca, thanks for being here. 

S7

Thank you for having me.

S3

Yeah, thanks so much for joining us, Bianca, and particularly to talk about a topic which I think we're all quite comfortable talking about, but some people less so. So are there particular challenges to dealing with periods if you're blind or have low vision?

S7

Yes, there are a lot of challenges for me in particular. That's one of the first challenges was knowing what was happening and when it was happening. A lot of people get, you know, cramps on a specific day before that period or they get crabby or whatever. But things just never really showed me what was going on. One month, I'd have a tummy ache. One month that had nothing. Nothing was really there. 

That was a marker to tell me, OK, like, am I going to get my period now? I wasn't always prepared. And then ending up getting a period when you really don't want to be getting a period, I got it as I was just about to get on a plane to a camp. Stress made it come early. I was in the middle of an operation and I got my period. But just, yeah, all sorts of stuff like that.

S3

Do you think the level of education that's particularly targeted at people who are blind to have no vision? Because I know we've talked before about how a lot of the information at school and a lot of the material out there is really visual, you know, it's sort of patches of of various anatomical things and what have you. Do you think that there's still work to be done in the space educating people from that perspective?

S7

The education is absolutely abysmal. I think there needs to be a huge amount of work done and people need to come to terms with the fact that their blind children or their blind relatives or whatever are getting periods. And that is a fact of life, and you can't do anything about it or you can do is educate them like you would educate your sighted relatives, but you just have to do it in a in a non visual way.

S3

And do you think there's a sense of embarrassment in the community talking on this subject?

S7

Absolutely. There's a huge sense of embarrassment. I was talking to a friend who was it's a bit of a bit tangential, but it's it totally says everything in Japan. They were talking about natural disasters and preparing for that and all that, and they didn't have sanitary stuff or baby formula or anything for people in those disaster areas because it was men who were doing the doing the logistics. Yeah. 

S3

Yeah, that does seem to be a more general squeamishness about it. You know, it's the classic most of the appetising. I think there is one company who's actually started using red now, but when they advertise sanitary products, it's always with this mysterious blue liquid that shows absorbency rates and things. 

And nobody parties that I didn't know that I didn't right. The idea that, you know, seeing seeing blood on screen is somehow too shocking and too revolting for us to cope with. So, yes, I use a nice clinical looking blue liquid in every single update on on television and in magazines is extraordinary...

S7

Which is very blueblood to a whole new level. I know, I know.

S3

Can you talk a bit about the different options you've got out there than managing your period?

S7

I have found having IUDs and implants. I had an IUD for a long time. I need to correct myself. I had an IUD for a long time. I have an implant now and just an IUD.

S3

For those of us who aren't sure an IUD is intrauterine device, is that right?

S7

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, basically, I had the marina and the marina looks like eight times New Roman T. It looks like a capital T in print, which is a long vertical line with a horizontal line on the top. And the vertical line is such that there are two equal sides. Going horizontally, but usually if you look at a T, It's just the two straight lines, but if you've got two times you run into each, it's got these little ticks going down the sides. So it's kind of like a roof. 

This little device is full of, I think it's progesterone and they inserted into your cervix and it has little, little wires going out. Basically, what happened to me was that I stopped getting periods. I also had it for contraception because it's one of the most effective contraception methods in case accidents happened. You get it put in and you have it for five years and you have no periods.

S3

And the people who are maybe less comfortable with having something more invasive, let's go for the typical scenario you're in the supermarket or the chemist and you've gone to the sanitary products aisle. You're blind to the explosion. How on earth do you navigate that? It's overwhelming enough when you're sighted. There's so many choices.

15:25

S7

Research, I guess what I got myself was a diva cup - that is basically a little silicone medical grade silicone top that you fold and you insert and it covers your cervix. The blood drips into it and then you empty it and then you re-enter it. And you can basically put that on my shoe around the time that you are going to get your period and you can empty it every up to 12 hours. You can get pads and you can get tampons as well, but the menstrual cups are good. There are a few different kinds this, but they're all silicone. I think there's one or two that were latex, but we won't talk about those. 

And the thing about them is that they are environmentally friendly. They don't leave crap all over landfill. They don't cause toxic shock syndrome like the tampons could if if it's kept too long in place, things like that. And there are about 20 or 30 bucks and they last for about 10 years.

S3

And let's go through the worst case scenario. How would you how would you advise people deal with the situation? You're out, you're out and about, you're not ready for it and it's decided to come nonetheless. You may have a stain. You're not sure what do you do?

S7

A lot of people get really upset and embarrassed, and years ago, I probably would have as well. Nowadays, I'm just like, OK, I wasn't prepared. I have a period if I look like, you know, I'll make a joke about or something. Yeah, if I look like the psycho movie and or like Freddy Krueger just had a go at me or something, you know, like just just some kind of thing, I think it's normal, like if something's really, really bad. 

My instinct these days is to act like it's normal and be like, OK, I got my period. I got it early. I got it unexpectedly. I'm probably going to stay in the absolute heck out of everything right now. I'm probably going to need some kind of help. And I'll ask some help. And you know, and these days, I don't care if it's a guy or a girl, I will ask for help where I can get it.

S3

And you're right. I mean, you say acting like it's normal absolutely is normal. And you know, that's happened to all of us. And you just kind of roll your eyes and get on with it. And I suppose the the the classic soak everything in cold water is everyone's best friend at this point, isn't it?

S7

Absolutely. See, people around me acted like it wasn't normal. Got all embarrassed. I ended up in tears and it didn't like it didn't change the fact that I had my period.

S3

And so, Bianca to end. If you're someone who maybe is just about to start cutting periods or maybe feel like you haven't quite found the sweet spot in managing your own, where might you go to find out more about what options there are out there?

S7

If you're at school or something, go see the school nurse. The school nurse needs to tell you about this sort of stuff. They'll help you if if your parents are not in a place to help you go find someone who you trust. If you know, looking, sitting and looking at the internet is a bit too impersonal, find someone you trust and they will help you with this stuff that maybe they'll take you out shopping. You can go get them and still come on. Period underwear is a good thing, too.

S3

Can you explain a bit about what that is?

S7

Yeah, I've never worn it, but it's underwear that absorbs your period blood and a [indistinct]. Apparently, there's like light, slow ones and heavy flow ones and bonds makes them and a couple of other brands. What's a which is there's one I heard about recently in the name. 

S3

Just going out of the body is the one called My Body.

S7

Yes, yes there is. Yes, there is. Thank you. Those would be nice and discreet, I guess, but find someone who you can trust. And if you get your first period soon, see if you can have a period party I love that's supposed to be celebrated.

S3

I don't think I'll ever get to the celebratory stage, but absolutely damn right. We should think it's as normal as anything, and I hope that it's not going to be too long before periods is not an appropriate topic for something where we're looking at things that are off limits. Bianca, thank. You so, so much for joining us, this has been so helpful, and thank you for your frankness as well. It's been really, really valuable for us. Thank you so much.

S7

Thank you.

19:41

S1

You're listening to nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly DG, on Vision Australia now provides a comprehensive set of telehealth services to help you achieve your goals. For more information, go to Vision Australia-dot-org or call 1800 847 466. Visit Australia Blindness Low Vision Opportunity.

S3

Our next guest is Amy Matthews. Amy is an occupational therapist at Vision Australia and specialises in helping people who are blind or have low vision develop the skills they need to live the life they choose. Amy has lots of handy tips and strategies for managing personal care, so we're so thrilled to have you on the show. Thank you so much, Amy.

S9

Thanks for having me.

S2

Amy, what strategies would you suggest to clients for managing menstruation?

S9

There are lots of different strategies available. They're all individual to the clients. There are more options coming out all the time. Something I really like for a client who's struggling with managing pads and lining them up or having issues with leakage is period pants. They're a fairly recent development, and they're just like regular underwear. Except the pad is built in, so you don't have to work out where there's a sanitation bin in the toilet. 

Dealing with changing pads, potentially when you're out, period pants mean they don't have to change anything throughout the day. They've got special absorbent material that I don't understand. I think it's magic material that you can wear them all day and not feel like you're wearing wet undies. You wear them for the day. Then rinse them off in cold water. Rinse them with some gentle soap. No fabric softener because fabric softener does something to the fabric and deactivate the magic so they stop absorbing anything, rinse them at the end of the day and then wash them as you would all the rest of your clothes.

S2

For a couple of other things people can do?

S9

There are strategies that people might already know and be aware of, like pads and tampons. Each have their benefits and challenges. Some people find with menstruation pads that they have some difficulty lining them up or making working out where to position them in their underwear. 

I often suggest people start with using pads that have wings, and you can line the top of the wings up with the little line or that double seam on the front of your underwear. Most underwear will have a double layer of fabric that little bit of extra protection that's not intended for managing periods, but where the double layer of fabric is is a really good guide for positioning your pads. Because if it's obviously too high or too low, you can get leakage at the top or the bottom. 

The other thing that I would suggest for some people is getting the longer pads so that if they are a little bit boards or a little bit back, you've got a bit of extra leeway. Young girls who are often a lot smaller in structure and getting used to wearing pads, they often find that having smaller, thinner ones and changing them more regularly is their preferred method. A lot of clients tell me that they don't know when to change their pads. They can't see the amount of blood thinner. If you've taken them off, the weight will be different, but most people will change them at regular times in the day, whether they set an alarm on their phone or just carried the right note pads change them. It's morning to lunch and afternoon tea.

S2

Now, puberty is a great time. It's not really. I mean, we all love it because not only do we miss them tonight are have absolutely we. We sometimes get our periods and we can also get haze fry sprouting left, right and centre on our bodies.

You know, some people like to keep these, these heads and some people like [indistinct] if you do like to remove them. What are some ways in which people who are blind or have low vision can safely remove these hairs on their body?

S9 

It depends on where the hairs are popping up. I, for one, am very glad puberty is over and have just had the joy of his popping up on my chin. I personally don't feel I'm quite ready to embrace that look. Some people do. But using your other senses to feel where the hairs are to remove them. 

A lot of people will use electric razors if they're deciding they don't want hair on their legs or other pubic areas under their arms. Electric razors have the advantage that they're less likely to cut the skin. However, some people find they don't cut as close. I've had a number of clients tell me that men's electric razors cut better and closer than females electric razors, so it's worth talking to people and working out which ones they prefer. 

Some people also decide that they don't want to remove their pubic hair completely, but just trim it. There are also trimming options if shaving or removing the hair isn't an option because they don't like it growing back quickly, or it's too fussy or annoying. There are different cream solutions that can bleach or remove hair. Before you start on. Any of these always do a patch test. Maybe talk to friends or family, talk to your tea or your support worker. Even the assistance at the pharmacy will provide advice on different products.

26:09

S2

How about public bathrooms? Have you experienced clients having difficulties accessing public bathrooms?

S9

Yes, it's unfortunately a common issue, as a lot of people will find themselves directed to a bathroom, but once they're inside having difficulties getting around. I find clients will often ask somebody to tell them in the bathroom where the cubicles, where the sinks are they on the left or the right. 

Asking for specific directions to the layout of the bathroom with the toilet cubicles asking somebody in advance which cubicle has a sanitation bin if they've got their period and they need to safely dispose of pants? Having a idea of a general layout makes navigating a bit easier. Amy, where

S2

Amy, where can women and men go if they want to find out more information about managing their personal care?

S8

So if they're having specific issues or things, they want to manage bit better. Men and women can talk to their occupational therapist and work through their specific goals where the barriers are and be more independent, managing their personal care and cleaning for men and women.

S2

And you can access occupational therapy support via Vision Australia. Amy, it's been wonderful having you on the show today. Thank you so much for being here.

S8

Thank you for letting me share some of my knowledge.

S3

This is just the start of the conversation about personal care. More information and some useful resources can be found on the Vision Australia website, including an article with some handy facts about periods.

S2

Remember, you can download each episode of Nothing's Off Limits by going to the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia-dot-org. That's Vision Australia dot org. Type Nothing's off limits into the search engine, and you'll be directed to my web page where you can listen to this and other episodes and do make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any. Or if you prefer, you can just tune in vintage in Australia right here.

S3

Next time, we'll be talking about relationships. How to develop and nurture positive relationships. Red flags to look out for. And what to do about them. And we have a great lineup of guests to help us, including a couple of familiar voices. But until then, thank you to our fantastic guests and thank you for joining us for the show where nothing's off limits.

28:46

S1

That was Nothing's Off Limits. Made with the support of efficient Australia and the NDIS information linkages and capacity building grant. Learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting V.J. Radio, dot org and access all there is to know about our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia dot org. 

We thank everyone who participated in this episode, but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support, so please share this podcast with just one person today and brighten our day or write us on your preferred podcast platform. Bye for now.