Confidence and Safety through body language and movement

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Nothing's off limits. It's off limits, bringing together experts and people with lived experience to discuss the topics we love to avoid but absolutely need to talk about. Made with the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS Information Linkages Capability Building Grant Building Grant.

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Hello and welcome to our second episode of our series where nothing is off limits. My name is Tess and together with my co-host Polly over the next 10 episodes, will be exploring some of those topics which we might usually consider off limits and discussing them openly, honestly through that specific lens of blindness and location.

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In this episode, we are talking about confidence and safety through body language and movement, what it feels like navigating different physical and social environments with new blind or have low vision. And we're going to delve into some strategies, tips and technology solutions out there, which can really help you interact with people and places with confidence and safety. Whilst we were researching for the series. We heard from some of you about how being blind or having low vision can impact how confident you feel getting out and about and connecting with people. And we also heard concerns about how to stay safe and reduce actual and perceived vulnerability. What was really interesting was that these questions were not only in relation to more typical orientation and mobility skills, but also around how to understand and master the elusive arts of body language. How to hold a move your body in a way that accurately expresses your intent. Body language or non-verbal communication could encompass facial expressions, posture, gestures, points of contact, physical proximity and even breathing. And I find out about the so-called seven percent rule, which says when we're communicating, seven percent of what is communicated is via what is said. 38 percent is via tone of voice, and the majority 55 percent is via body language text that seems an extraordinarily high percentage. Does that

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surprise you? Well, I'm not sure that it does poorly if you're not used to communicating in other ways. I think people do find it very easy to communicate through body language. But of course, that's not so easy if you're blind or have low vision because you don't necessarily know how somebody feels like. They might say that they're comfortable, or they might say that you should feel safe with them, but their body language might be saying something else.

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That's right, and numerous messaging tells us that confident body language is a key component of personal safety. And so testing, I asked you, how safe do you feel when you are out on your own? Oh, we got some really interesting answers.

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Nothing's off limits with Tess and Polly Polly. How safe do you feel when you're on your own?

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I'm very lucky. I'm six foot four and have long, gangly limbs, so I don't feel physically threatened very often. I've only ever been run over once, and that was by somebody on a bicycle who didn't know his lights on at night. That hurt.

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Mostly, I feel very safe as an independent traveller. I've got the tools I need to ensure that I remain safe when I travel.

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I feel quite safe. I don't really have too many concerns. Not for me personally. I've got enough vision that I tend to do. I can.

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I feel pretty safe on my own. Generally speaking, always aware. But I, you know, make sure that I keep my safety top of mind, but I don't feel unsafe.

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I feel safe when I'm on my own, depending on where I am, when I'm on my own.

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I feel relatively okay because I have a dog God, and my dog does alert me to, you know, strangers and odd sort of noises and things.

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I've never actually found this challenging. I actually really like my own company. I spend a lot of

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time on my own. The only time this would be challenging would be back to the mobility one. When I when I'm lost somewhere, I'm finding it really challenging to find my way somewhere or if I'm in a new environment, can sometimes feel really overwhelming and it can feel a bit unsafe.

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You're listening to nothing's off limits with TESS and poorly produced by Vision Australia radio.

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I'd now like to welcome our first guest for this episode, who has some useful insights about staying safe in the home. Natalie Wade is the founder and principal lawyer at Equality Lawyers ACM, which is relatively unique in Australia, being set up by people with disabilities for people with disabilities. And Natalie, thank you for being here. It's wonderful to chat, to say

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thank you for having me. Probably interests and pleasure to be here.

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Have you noticed a sense of vulnerability around people being safe in their homes?

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Certainly in the high instalment, we often associate and pain and on issues that the safest place a person can make is at home. But we know, and particularly in the last year or sorry, in Australia, we've been having a very serious conversation within the. It's not an ingenuity about what is it to be safe at home and if we die to recycle home, what do we do?

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What particular legal rights should people be

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aware of in Australia? There are a number of laws that protect our people and to be safe at home and generally the criminal law. Of course, if if someone breaks into your house, then you should absolutely retain the police and get someone out there to sort that out. If you are at home and if your family members is abusive to you, then you have specific laws that address family and domestic violence. But what is unique for people with disabilities from living in their homes is often there are other people in their home that provide them with support and care that they need to get about their everyday life and then can present some risk and require other rules to protect them in those situations. So for people who are receiving the NDIS, the National Disability Insurance Scheme, there are specific laws that regulate the people of the country to provide care in the home. And if those people do something bad that may be violent, it may be abusive and it may simply be disrespectful. And not acknowledging your right at home can make choices to be safe and comfortable, then people with disabilities are able to reach out to the National Disability Insurance Scheme. Quality and Safeguards Commission Quality and Safeguards Commission is there to ensure that people who provide support in the home and can people with disabilities steady and safe people to be around?

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What are some other proactive steps that people can take to stay safe in their

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homes, damaged in a particular and groundbreaking? If are observing a disability and you have concerns about how to be safe? I think it's really important for you to think about how are you on set? What are the risks that are facing you and how can you manage those? So for people who are blind or how do I envision them to be something as simple as needing to know who is in the front door sort? So having a system in place using assistive technology or being very old school, such as an intercom system where the person at the front door can tell you that the lady who they are as opposed to simply ringing a doorbell if they direct your outdoor barriers and then having an intercom system where you're able to speak to the person who is at the front door and can be really valuable over three hours. And if you had people in your home that did there in a professional capacity, for example, support workers or allied health professionals visit you on a regular basis, you should have a really clear set of ground rules about what you need to make sure that you feel safe in the home. Again, this is to me very unique to your only experience experiencing disability, and it may not be a set of ground rules, but I saw it in person Ron Howard or a minor on the set of ground rules and then other people that are blind and vision impairments would have it can be as urinated to you as you need it to be, and that a set of problems might include as clothes announce yourself when you walk into the room. So say your name when you come into any room, the bedroom, the bathroom in the front door, whatever it may be that you don't feel comfortable with people being in a certain space with you. You know, perhaps I don't want to sound like a public health officer, but I would probably prefer a range of you, and no hands would probably be concerned because you find that to be overwhelming or you find it to be instructive to how you get around. And so you should make it really clear to those who work with you as to what you need to know. And then changing this on the ground can be communicated in a very old school fashion, writing, you know, in paper and pen. You lied to me. Not inclined to me cry that in 1998, and you relied on me a little bit more modern, you could imagine a story to the paper that are responsible for your care, what you're you to have it ready on my rostering system that you use electronically to manage your staff so that they are rare when they're working with you. What is required, sir? I think it probably speaks a little bit to regular visitors. And also people to your mind of its great friends in the heart and the third group of people that you might want to consider. How is your family and their loved ones? Now, I would love to say that they don't need 80 years my age, and they are all magical and older. I mean, enjoy. Absolutely. Sure. Then that is, for the most part, very true. But I want to acknowledge that there are people with disabilities, disproportionately their friends, family and domestic violence. And I really rely on those people to know that if you are in that situation, if you are facing violence, abuse or neglect at home, then I would strongly encourage you to reach out to a trusted friend or someone outside of the home to call a domestic violence or family violence hotline and really make sure that you have the support of others to deal with that and that you know that you are not alone.

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What's particularly exciting is that Natalie has agreed to come back and expand on some of the topics we talked about just touched on there around those relationships in the home, with your family and with your carers. So I'm really looking forward to getting into some more details about that with you. Then, Natalie, thank you so much.

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My absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for having me.

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If this program has brought up any issues for you, please contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or online at Lifeline dot org dot Donahue. The suicide call back service is one 300 six five nine four six seven or online at Suicide Call Back Service dot org. Today you there's beyondblue 1300 double two four six three six and online and beyond blue dot org.

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Today you.

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You're listening to Nothing's Off Limits with Tess and Polly. Did you know Vision Australia's orientation and mobility specialists can support you to move around safely and confidently? For more information, go to Vision Australia dot org or call us on one 300 eight four seven four W6 Vision Australia Blindness Low Vision Opportunity.

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Our next guest is Namoi. Malcolm Namoi is Vision Australia's emotional and social support program supervisor. He is also an advocate of the importance of understanding and using body language and other non explicit, subtle social clues as a way to connect. And he's a keen student in understanding and using your voice and your body to engage with confidence. Namoi Thanks for being here.

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My pleasure and thanks for having me.

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In researching for this episode, we heard listeners talk about how losing their sight can lead to a loss of confidence and an increase in self-consciousness. Is this something you've experienced now?

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I did experience it when I originally lost my sight back in 1998 as someone who was at that time 18 years old trying to find himself as an adult. So I did have that whole sense of what is my body doing in space? How am I being perceived by those around me and how do I want to be perceived?

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How did you regain that confidence?

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Part of regaining that confidence was actually using my body, so I, before I lost my sight, was practising martial arts, and I went back to martial arts after I lost my sight. And it really forced me to continue to use and test my body to continue to use and test my balance by jumping my rolling, my kicking and punching. I was very physically active, and that really helped me to understand myself relative to the space around me. It also helps me to feel confident in my movement.

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That's a fantastic way of dealing with that. I think so many people have all sorts of creative ways of getting that confidence back and getting that at confidence, particularly in their body. We did some surveys, and one listener shared that as their design had deteriorated, they had begun to feel more self-conscious. Now just read this. I worried that people would see a person who was blind when I walked by and not the capable person I know I am normally. What strategies would you suggest for for coping with those fears of the impression that we make?

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Because you're blind, it doesn't make you any less confident. I don't see separating the two. You're still a person, you just happened to be blind. So how does a person move through their environment with confidence? How do they predict confidence when moving through their environment? Well, part of that is about looking ahead, looking forward. Even when you feel a lost, you still look forward, you still walk with a purpose. Part of that is also about using your mobility aids and your skills when traveling, whether it's making sure that you're moving in step with your cane or whether it's trying to stay relaxed. And at least if you're using a service dog, or if you're someone who has low vision and is using your hat or your glasses. It's just about wearing those things and really feeling like you're using all of your aids and equipment to your advantage. That's really where confidence comes from. Confidence comes from inside first. So if you're telling yourself that you're not confident in what you're doing, then people around you are going to think that you're not confident in what you're doing. Let's be clear, as a person with no vision myself, there are accidents. There are times when I apologize to Poles. There are times when I misstep and stumble. There are times when my step in front of a car that is just about to accelerate, so I have to quickly snap back. These things are things that happen to sighted people, to people who are fully sighted, fully able bodied. They might be looking down at their phone rather than looking at the lights, which might cause them to step in front of a vehicle. Sighted people bump into other people or bump into poles. They just don't apologize when they do so. People aren't necessarily watching me do my thing, and if they are, well, that's just because I look good.

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That's great. And I should disclose as a sighted person, that's absolutely right. Whether you're glued to your phone or just in a daydream, you walk in to things, you stumble into people and polls, Nimoy as well. And I remember I'm going to a dinner once and sitting next to a young woman who was blind, and I reached across the table and managed to knock over a jug of water that went all over the kind of the guest of honor. And after, you know, I apologized and got all flustered when I sat down, she said. I'm so relieved to hear that sighted people

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do that as well. We absolutely terrible spilling wines the worst, at least. Definitely the stains. And I'm with you. I apologize falls as well. It sounds very much like those basic orientation or ability skills that we, I suppose when we lose our vision, we learn. We learned fairly quickly. It sounds like those basic skills are so very important. Is that right?

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That's absolutely right. I think that practice doesn't make perfect. It just makes better. So the more that you are willing to use your orientation and mobility skills better off you will be when

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you're speaking with people, particularly perhaps for the first time. How do you give that right vibe so that so that you can interact on your own terms and remain in control of your body, so not get dragged across the road?

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We have well-meaning people in the world, and those well-meaning people will see me as a person with a disability and think that he must need help. He must need saving. Despite my best efforts to move with confidence, to move with grace, to move with purpose, people may still feel like they need to be my hero. So for me, it's less about stopping people from doing it and being conscious and ready to react when people do grab me. When people do enter my space unwanted. One of the techniques that I tend to use is simply to stop. And it doesn't matter where I am. If someone enters my space, if they reach in and they grab me. I just stop. I stop and I turn my full attention on them. I will verbally ask them to let me go. I'm verbally ask them to remove themselves from me. I will verbally let them know that I'm confident that I am in control. I know what I'm doing if they can't speak English or if they don't understand me. The simple fact that I have stopped is enough to alert them that what they're doing is unwanted. And if I need to our physically remove their hand from my person or from my backpack or from my pain, and they will get the point that I'm not going with them. I use this technique even when I'm boarding a train or getting off of a train or bus. If one foot's on the platform and the other foot's on the train, I will just stop and I won't move until they let me go. And I will use verbal cues, but I also use that non-verbal. I'm not moving until you release me to. And most people get the hint fairly quickly.

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Nimoy, thank you so much. Some really amazing strategies and insights you've got there around how to maintain that physical agency and confidence. Thank you so much for sharing. We could talk for much longer, but thank you for coming on.

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My pleasure. Thanks for listening.

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Our final guest is Darren Moyle Difference in Orientation and mobility specialist at Vision Australia. Darren, thank you so much for joining us.

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Now, Ari, it's good to be here. Can you

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maybe start by telling us what's an orientation to mobility or an especialistas specialist does and why you're so passionate about it as a career?

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Orientation mobility, in a sense, is quite broad, but basically, if you to look at any of the textbooks would say it's teaching, someone who is blind has a vision to get from point A to point B safely and effectively. But really, when people ask me what my job is, I explain to people that I teach people who are blind have a vision to solve everyday problems so they can navigate their world and participate in their community or participate in activities as they would wish to leave that loss that they choose. And being able to move around your world is a key component of that. Whether it's sort of a physical setting or even navigate social settings gives people the freedom to be able to head out and catch up with friends or join local sporting clubs, or be able to attain work and move around the place and be a confident traveler.

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Darren, you've kindly agreed to share some strategies that can help in tackling some of the kind of the typically tricky and daunting scenarios. And I guess I'm thinking in particular about navigating completely new environments or using public transport and meeting up at cafes and bars and restaurants.

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You know, there are a lot of challenges around that. So a big part of that would be that having the mobility skills, so you know, we probably are familiar with, you know, people who use mobility. I like a long cane or an ID cane, as well as electronic aids that might help people travel so that use sonar or other technology that we use on our on our smartphone, which we'll get into later. But a lot of the work that we do is to be able to provide people with skills so they can navigate these sort of complex areas. So when you're waiting for a bus and you have three different bus routes to go through the one stop, how do you have the skills to ask the driver, is this the correct bus? Can I use that for a talk? There's an app or some sort of technology to know, Is this my bus? So I'm not making it, so I'm not getting on the wrong one and heading off the opposite direction, heading into cafes and things that those kind of indoor environments and whether it's a cafe or a classroom at a school or a new lecture theatre teaching people to be able to walk into that space and trying to grab some information immediately about it. You know, how big is the room, whether we're using our vision, our remaining vision as a sense to be able to get that information or, you know, using sound echolocation so that the sound that you know, people who are blind to have a vision, some people have the ability, said he sounds bounce off walls and that gives gives an accurate description of kind of how big the room might be or how dense it might be with furniture. The way now to get this information at the start is really useful. And then also having the skills to be able to try and navigate that space and try and discover that area for yourself. So how big is it and what's the perimeter like? You know where the table's laid out in this cafe and where is the counter? Where do I order my coffee from? And once I've ordered my my latte with one sugar, where do I go and stand and collect the coffee? And. And sometimes sometimes that is where an orientation my mobility specialist might come in to provide that extra layer of information that sometimes is visual to be able to give people that little bit extra information that they might need to get, feel free and confident to walk into that space and know that they can. They know sort of the social cues and they know the social environment that they're walking into. Now I'm an orientation of my mobility specialist, but I also have low vision, so that's probably a big part of why I'm so passionate about the role as well, because I live it every day.

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I know you're really passionate about more high-tech options. I think you can introduce us to three apps which have really kind of revolutionized mobility for the community.

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One of my top picks of my favorite apps is an app called Microsoft Soundscape. What this is, this is an app that uses 3D audio. So if you're using bone conducting headphones so you have some headphones in your ears, imagine you going to a brand new place. You know you've gone to the Gold Coast for the weekend. Lovely. You could. Yeah, you can turn this app on walking with soundscape. With this three day directional sand, I can hear that there's an idea directly off to my left and I can hear that there's a McDonald's up ahead of me. I can hear about the names of the brains that I'm passing. So kind of provides a greater level of orientation so you can feel more confident navigating these spaces.

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Is there anything else out there? Maybe if you're kind of going on some public transport, I know that can be quite challenging.

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If you're an author and user next year. If you're an Android user, you could use an app called Transit. But essentially what this does at the bus stop your app, you can open it up and pinpoint your location using GPS. You can choose the bus stop you're standing at with voiceover as well, and you find you can get a call out of live information about how far away buses. So, for example, you might have united. Two three, three draw in two minutes is seven to seven doing four minutes and then the nine three nine during eight minutes. I know it's the third bus that I need to catch. Can I think

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you have one more for us

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down? There is another app and this is an app called Aara. This app is really great. I serve refrigerators. Get out of jail card. Kind of a way that you have access to some visual information from someone who's fully trained. They're sitting behind the computer in the USA so they can see your current location. And I can also see what you're saying. Of the camera so people can use this app to ask, I'm a bit disorientated. Can you show me where my nearest bus stop is or I'm in an airport and I need to work at where the check-in guides? And by simply opening the app and pressing the call button, someone's on the other line. And I can see I've used this in Sydney Airport before our agent brings up the interior map. Just, yep, keep going straight ahead. All this some signs on the left. In Japan, you find the left. There's a sign saying checking area straight ahead. Keep on going. So they can kind of give you this extra layer of visual information that in the past, you know, we just didn't have access to our which is a paid up. But also there's other options. You know, there's a free app called Be My Eyes is a similar thing where you're talking directly to volunteers. You also have the option of just using face time or using your smartphone camera and calling a friend and saying, Hey, you know, a bit lost. Can you tell me, is they're crossing me here? Or When is a taxi? Or can you read this document for me? So using technology and using cameras and things like that is making a huge difference.

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S3

Darren, thank you so much. That was so interesting and some really helpful strategies as well. Thank you for joining us.

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S8

All right, guys, it's a pleasure.

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Well, this is just the start of the conversation about staying safe inside and outside of your home. And if you want to find out more about the orientation and mobility, skills training or some of the amazing community groups that Nimoy runs. You can find that information on the Vision Australia website. Just go to Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot org. And remember, you can also download this podcast from the Vision Australia website, this episode and previous episodes. The website also has some links to useful resources and information, including some of the apps that Darren mentioned.

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And next time we're going to be talking about mental health, but for now, thank you to all of our guests and thank you for joining us for the show where nothing's off limits.

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That was nothing's off limits. Made with the support of Vision Australia and the NDIS Information Linkages Capability Building grants, learn more about our radio and podcast offerings by visiting VOA Radio, dot org and access all there is to know about our range of client services via our website. Vision Australia dot org. We thank everyone who participated in this episode, but especially you for listening today. We rely on your support, so please share this podcast with just one person today and bright announce or greet us on your preferred podcast platform. Bye for now. If this program has brought up any issues for you, please contact Lifeline on 13, 11, 14 or online at Lifeline dot org dot IU. The suicide callback service is one 300 six five nine four six seven or online at Suicide Callback Service dot org. Today you there's beyondblue 1300 double two four six three six and online and beyond blue dot org. Today you.