The intersection between music, disability and mental health - Eliza Hull

Speaker 1 00:00

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Speaker 2 00:19

Brainwaves. Hear the world differently. Bringing community mental health to you, raising awareness and challenging stigma. Tune in to 3CR Community Radio, Wednesdays at 5pm.

Speaker 3 00:32

A radio program featuring community organizations powerful stories and information. Find us at brainwaves.org.au ... proudly sponsored by Wellways Australia

Speaker 4 00:46

I would like to begin by paying my respects to the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin nation, who were the traditional custodians of the land on which I am coming to you from today. Land where at brainwaves we tell our stories, and land where the traditional custodians have told their stories for many, many years before us, and continue to tell their stories. I would like to pay my respects to elders past and present, and acknowledge all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander listeners who are listening today.

Speaker 5 01:16

Hello and welcome to Brainwaves on 3CR, 855 AM on your dial app or via the online stream. My name is Flic Manning and I'm your host. Today, I'm joined by Eliza Hull. Having established herself as one of Australia's most striking songwriters of recent years, Eliza Hull has proven a longevity of her music and continued evolution with the release of her new EP, Here They Come, which sees Hull work with ARIA Award winning producer Pip Norman of Baker Boy and Missy Higgins fame and feature co-writes with artists Gordie and Adette. The first single, Running Underwater, was first performed by Hull during a powerful appearance on national TV on ABC's Q &A. It's the first song Hull has written about being disabled and living with the condition [?charco mari tooth].

The music video features disabled dancer Roy of The Destroyer and sparked many needed conversations about the lack of representation of disability in the music industry. The song is currently featured in Double J's Best New Music. 2023 was also a big year for Eliza, a year that has seen her profile as a musician and advocate for disabled musicians rise exponentially in Australia and overseas. Highlights include speaking at South by Southwest Sydney, Big Sound, the Women in Music Awards and performing live on the BBC and ABC. The second half of the year, so Hull tour through the UK across five weeks, including a lucrative place on the Great Escape Festivals program in Brighton. An award-winning artist, Music Victoria Awards, AWNE Women in Music Award, Eliza Hull is an engaging and captivating performer who has been drawing a loyal fan base across the country.

Notable shows at many iconic venues and events, including the Sydney Opera House, Ability Fest, New Year's Eve on the Hill, Hamer Hall, Big Sound, South by Southwest and the Melbourne Recital Centre, which she recently sold out. Hull's ability to craft soundscapes marked by their nuance and intimacy is second to none in Australia, and her music has been featured in TV internationally in shows including Awkward, Teen Wolf, Saving Hope and in Australia, on The Heights and Then Something Changed. Hull has also written books including co-writing Come Over to My House for children and We've Got This, essays by disabled parents. She is currently the Disability Arts reporter for ABC Melbourne. 

So needless to say, everyone listening at home or driving home wherever you are today, we are exceptionally lucky to have Eliza with us today. Eliza, welcome to the show.

Speaker 6

Thank you very much. 

Speaker 5

It's an absolute thrill to be here with you and I've been looking forward to this interview with you for a really, really long time actually because I've been listening to music for a long time and your beautiful single I just mentioned in the opening there, that music video just was so incredibly moving and your music and your sound in that song in particular is just, strikes right at the heart. So I think you're just offering something very, very unique to the Australian music scene. But to get into a bit more of the questions, I wanna dive right in with one that I ask everybody that comes on the show. What does the term mental health mean to you?

Speaker 6 04:33

I guess the term mental health means, well, you know, I was talking to my mother this week about how I feel like we prioritise our physical health. So we, you know, go to the gym or we exercise, look after ourselves, at the way that we eat. But we often don't talk about our mental health and how I feel like that is something that we need to prioritise. And I was speaking to my mother about how I go and see a psychologist and she's like, why would you need to do that? But you know, she doesn't understand that the many layers of being a disabled person, I guess. But I just said to her that I think everyone should go. 

I think everyone should have a space where they feel like they can talk and to prioritise their own mental health. And, you know, it's part of, I think our body and our mind is so linked. And it's something that often we don't prioritise until it's too late.

Speaker 5 05:36

I absolutely agree with you, especially that last statement there. Now the music industry has not historically been the most inclusive space, yet you proudly represent disability in your music. Has this made your journey as a performer more challenging, and if so, in what ways?

Speaker 6 05:53

Yeah, definitely more challenging in that. I mean, first of all, I probably didn't believe in myself enough. I didn't believe that I could be a musician, that I could make it a career. And I think that came from just being really insecure. And early on, starting out when I moved to Melbourne, I grew up in regional Victoria, and some of those first producers would just really influence me in negative ways, like, say, you know, telling me not to walk in my music video. Just, you know, that difference was not something that we should be pushing in terms of the image and the branding. So I think that that kind of fed into this belief that it was something I should hide.

And I just really didn't have much representation in the music industry of artists with disabilities. So I didn't have many people to look up to and therefore thought, okay, it's best that I really keep this concealed and not share it with anybody that I was working with.
You know, sometimes my band members wouldn't know, my booking agent wouldn't know, a publisher that I was working with at the time didn't know. And that was just because I hit it in, you know, make sure I met people sitting down so that they wouldn't know the way that I walked. And it just got too heavy in the end. 

And now that I do identify somebody with a disability and speak about it more and advocate for change, I think in a sense, the thing that I was hiding has kind of been the thing that has enabled me to keep pursuing it, funnily enough. Because music industry is a really tough one. And it is, I guess, hard to stand out when we are seeing so many people release music on a daily basis, like there's just so much music being made. And I guess, you know, having more of a purpose that's connecting me with my music and that is that I want to advocate for others. I want to make sure that there's representation for emerging artists that has, I guess, brought more meaning to an otherwise pretty tough industry.

Speaker 5 08:17

It seems so funny to me that in an industry that is about in so many ways creativity that they're encouraging you to shy away from using difference and yet when we look at so many of the artists that I guess we hold up and revere we can specifically link them to a difference of some kind whether it's the way that they dress or the things that they are singing about or how they you know there's so many differences and that's what catapults them to such levels of stardom but it just goes to show you that sometimes when it comes to disability or chronic illness the thinking around that kind of difference is very very different to other differences.

Now your song Running Underwater I mean as I said before it's so beautiful I remember the first time that I saw the music video just tears streamed down my face it was just stunning and you have the most incredible music video for it as you said before we've created the Destroy It in it. What was the inspiration behind the song and the video?

Speaker 6 09:18

Yes, I guess that that is the first song that I wrote about having a disability - and which kind of feels quite unusual, considering I've had my disability since I was five and have been writing songs since I was probably about 14 or 15.

Speaker 5 09:33

But you just never have written about it again. 

Speaker 6

I think that falls back into feeling like I had to hide it. And so this was kind of just that pushing back on it and talking about growing up with a disability.

Speaker 6 09:43

And I had met Roya through a mutual friend and she started to dance with just an acoustic version of the song. And she sent me a video of her, she's a street performer and was using it to dance to. And I really just thought this is such a great match. And so I asked her to to dance in the official music video. And she's absolutely incredible artist and that has one leg. And well, you know, hang up, hang off the wall and do, you know, huge somersaults and just the most wonderful dancer. And I think, yeah, she just really took it to that next level. 

And I think it's not often that we've really seen representation in our music videos of disability. So it's something that I'm really proud of sharing. And yeah, I don't know how I'll ever top that incredible connection that Roya and I had. And how she really embodies the music so well.

Speaker 5 10:45

Yeah, it does really seem like a dream team sort of collaboration and deceiving sort of the staging of the music video itself was just beautiful because you really allowed, you know, your singing, your songwriting, but also Roya to really have the platform to use. There was nothing else kind of getting in the way of the message. I thought it was just beautifully, beautifully done. So well done to you. 

Speaker 6

Thank you. 

Speaker 5

Now, Eliza, can you take us through a time in your life where your mental wellbeing was challenged or stretched in some way and how you ended up navigating that?

Speaker 6 11:21

I think, you know, I definitely have anxiety and probably just naming it has felt really good, because I've probably had it all my life, actually, just never known what it was, know what it feels like. And so I think the way that I've got through that is actually naming it funnily enough, like just saying that I have anxiety and that's why I feel like I'm sometimes get out of breath or I just have kind of this constant feeling of like that Fight or Flight feeling. And I think just talking about it, like using, you know, sharing how I feel with my friends, seeing a psychologist, and not kind of feeling stigmatised by that, not feeling that that's a negative or that there's anything wrong to share that you struggle at times.

And I think just by having a space to unpack everything that's happened in your life and, you know, things that still continue to affect you is just a really powerful tool.

Speaker 5 12:33

Yeah, I love that. Now, it appears to me that you must have a pretty solid work ethic, because the music industry, as you said before, it is challenging, it is not easy on people. But that sort of then leads me to think if you're out touring, you're doing all these things, creating music videos, you're collaborating, you're writing, and you've got this solid work ethic, you must have also developed some strategies for, you know, your mental and physical wellbeing, so that you can do those things, particularly with also having a disability on top. Can you take us through what touring might look like for you in terms of, you know, using those strategies you've developed?

Speaker 6 13:11

Yeah, so I guess, you know, it's not easy because financially, sometimes these decisions can seem really silly. But now I generally don't travel and then do a show that night, because it's just too much. I'm never at my best if I do that. And I just feel like a physical toll of especially if it's air flight is just too much. So I guess just putting in boundaries in place, making sure that you get adequate rest, eating really well, drinking lots of water, all of those really simple things that sometimes you forget to do when you're feeling anxious. They're the things that have really kept me going. And then also just balance like, yeah, you know, again, I try not to do back to back weekends of shows. 

It's been a bit busy recently, where at last, I think it was not last week, I meant the weekend before I did four shows in the weekend, that's very unusual, but it was just by chance that that happened. And then this this weekend coming, I'm doing shows in Byron Bay, but putting space around those shows. So doing a day where you have a rest is really important to make sure that I can get through mentally and physically.

Speaker 5 14:27

Yeah, I love that. Rest is so important and so overlooked. So much of the time we're so busy doing a million things that we forget the human part of, you know, being a human being. It all requires a bit of nourishment and self care. So I love to hear that you're doing, you know, what seems like the basics, but can feel quite challenging sometimes when you're actually applying it with the pressures of, you know, something like touring or, you know, dealing with anxiety or physical symptoms as well. Because it's very applicable to anyone that's listening at home as well. 

Now you, you know, you're part of obviously not just the music industry, but you are representing people with disability within our community. And often people with disability do face challenges of having their work amplified within really any industry, but particularly the creative ones. How have you then navigated and succeeded at working and you've, you know, books, music, performances, public speaking, and there's so many different creative things that you do, which can seem quite unattainable. How have you managed to strategically make this all happen within your world?

Speaker 6 15:34

If I look back, it all probably began with a simple idea. And so that idea was to apply for the ABC scholarship that they were doing. It was the first step that they were running. They run it every single year for an artist with a disability, a writer, or to create content. And I think at that time, it was if you were regionally based and I'm a living castle man, but I think now they've actually moved it to, that's not a prerequisite. So that was the first scholarship I got with ABC. And that's where I went to them with the idea about creating a series called, We've Got This - about parenting with disability. And that, it just went really, really well. 

I think I was quite surprised that other networks, which is pretty uncommon, if you've created a series with ABC, it's uncommon that the major stations will pick it up, that are more mainstream channels, TV shows would want to talk about it, but they did. And so I think that's kind of how it all began. And then I, at the time, had had a chapter in growing up disabled in Australia. And then I pitched this to the same publisher to make the book of We've Got This, of the same name about parenting with disability. So I guess that's how it kind of started to happen in that space. 

And in the music space, that's something I've been working on forever, really. I've been working on it for 20 years, actually, when I really think about it. And so it's not something that's just kind of happened recently and it's just been a big slog. Constant recording, writing, playing, and big moments throughout the time, where you have songs in TV shows and you get to tour overseas. And then moments where you think, what am I doing? And it's not happening at all. But I guess I've worked really hard and I've just kept really persisting and I knock on a lot of people's doors. So I email a lot of people and pitch my ideas to, and I get a lot of no replies or nos, but I also get some yeses.

And I think it's just that, I guess that feeling of like, actually, this is what I really feel passionate about and not willing to give up on it. So I think that's, because a lot of people do just decide to give up on it. And I understand, because it's the writing industry, the music industry, all of those things are incredibly taxing, mentally and physically, and constant rejections can be really hard. It's just, you, yeah. And I think that recently, I feel like I've kind of let go of my ego a bit more. I just don't care as much. I think I've really... know, I know who I am and I know what's really important to me. And those things are like cooking and being with my family and friends. And being out in nature. And, you know, so I think that's also helped because it's not like everything's riding on it anymore.

Speaker 5 19:01

Yeah, I love that. I love that. You sort of hear that from a number of people over a period of time, whether it's something to do with age or just having been in something for so long and dealt with so many rejections, but there is that aspect of just not caring so much about kind of the big things. And weirdly enough, sometimes when you click into that gear, because all the things you are doing are just like a natural reflection somehow of who you are, they just come when they're supposed to come. It's just a strange way that it works.

Speaker 6 19:34

Yeah, it's a curious thing and not to say that they that you don't still work hard, you do, but you just don't. Yeah, you don't. You kind of let go, you surrender a bit more. And funnily enough, the flow seems to happen better.

Speaker 5 19:47

Eliza, when you are writing an album, do you feel that your mental health is impacted or uplifted in any way? And if so, can you expand on that for our audience?

Speaker 6 19:56

Part of it is just like you get excited and you feel energised and a bit like top of the world feeling like, Oh, this music's really good. Like I'm really enjoying this. And then the other part is the doubt, the worry that maybe you're not writing, that people are going to like it. All of those silly things that get in the way, that can also be part of it. But I think I just keep trying to go back to like, well, just who are you? What do you want to say? And what do you like? Like I can't, you can't write to other people. And that's kind of where I'm at. You just got to write for yourself. 

And part of the other part is just the kind of feeling of the songs get a bit bone in your bones. Like honestly, I don't know what that is. It's not that they're that catchy, but for some reason, I cannot stop that. Don't leave my psyche. So I'm dreaming about them. Yeah, I'm humming them as I'm, you know, going about my day. So there's some sort of kind of fixation feeling of, and I think most creatives might feel this if they write a book or they just can't stop thinking about, oh, how do I finish that chapter? So yeah, probably pretty common.

Speaker 5 21:13

Yeah. I mean, it sounds like it can be quite an all-consuming sort of process because as you said, it's not in the sense of, you know, clocking in and clocking out of a job. Not to say that you wouldn't necessarily take some of those things home with you, you probably would, but it's not a 24-7, you know, expression of who you are as a person. And so it's a lot more personal and therefore deeper. Well, Eliza, it's been such a buzz to talk to you today. Before we wrap up though, are there any events coming up that you want to talk about to our keen listeners today?

Speaker 6 21:49

Yeah, so I'm performing at the Melbourne Recital Centre on October 5th, part of Ultra State Festival, which is Disability Arts Festival. And that's going to be my headline show. And then I'm also performing at Ability Fest in October as well, which is happening in Melbourne and also in Brisbane. So that's, yeah, quite exciting.

Speaker 5 22:16

That's awesome. And I know everyone can obviously reach out to you as well on social media or on your website, they'll find you in bookstores. And of course, if you go to Double J, you'll hear Eliza's fantastic music as well. In fact, if you've got a phone in your hand that's got interconnect connection, look her up on YouTube, watch the music video, then make sure you go in and you start buying some of Eliza's beautiful music and books. It is definitely worth your effort. Thank you again, Eliza, for being on the show. It was so wonderful to talk to you today. 

Speaker 6

Thank you so much for having me. Pleasure. 

Speaker 5

And thank you to all of our wonderful Brainwaves audience for tuning in as well. Now remember that your mental health is of equal importance to your physical health. So if you were yet to align them together today, let's take a moment now for a big inhale, a lovely deep exhale. And then remember to shower yourself in the kindness that you so easily give to others. I look forward to joining you next time on Brainwaves.

Speaker 7 23:16

If you're wrestling with feelings of anxiety, worry and depression or finding the current social isolation measures hard to deal with, we would like to encourage you to call Wellways Helpline. Wellways Helpline is a volunteer support and referral service that provides information to people experiencing mental health issues or other disabilities, as well as their family, friends and carers. We're here to talk if you are seeking information about mental health or mental health services or just need someone to talk to. As a peer-based service, everyone working at Wellways Helpline has a lived experience of mental health issues or disability.

Wellways Helpline is a national service and operates Monday to Friday 9am to 9pm, excluding public holidays. If you feel it would be helpful to talk to someone about these issues during this difficult period, please call Wellways Helpline on 1300 111 500. That's 1300 111 500. Wellways supports 3CR.

Speaker 8 24:13

You've been listening to a 3CR podcast, produced in the studios of independent community radio station 3CR in Melbourne, Australia. For more information go to all-the w's dot 3CR dot org dot AU.