Episode 5 – Olivia Muscat and James Parr

Jason Clymo 0:00

(MUSIC) Welcome to Reframed, a panel show that discusses disability representation in media. (MUSIC) My name is Jason Clymo. I'm one of your co-hosts. I'm a queer person with disability who has dabbled in modelling, acting, and I'm also a young business owner. I'm fiercely passionate about representation of people with disability on screen.

Stephanie Dower 0:30

And I'm Stephanie Dower. I'm a filmmaker and access coordinator, and I'm a keen traveller - and I'm really excited to talk all things disability on screen today, and meet our amazing guests. First we have Olivia Muscat. Olivia Muscat is a writer, critic, actor and singer. Her writing is featured in the Saturday paper, Kill Your Darlings and Refinery 29... and her work Is Anyone Even Watching? will be presented at Arts House this season.

Jason Clymo 0:57

We're also joined by James Parr, who is an award-winning multidisciplinary model, a speaker, an event host, and a passionate champion for visibility. He uses his own experiences to champion change in the way people with disabilities are included and represented across all mainstream fashion and media places. Thanks so much for joining us, guys. Now it's time for our first segment - and I have got the power this episode. I'm excited. It's called Get Your Head in the Frame - where I'll be asking all three of you to jump in, yell your name if you know the answer to these three multiple choice questions on media. Okay, question one: Saturday Night Live has had how many openly queer cast members in its 49 seasons? A, 49... B,2... or C,6.

James Parr 1:53

James. Would be C. So I feel like 49's way too...

Jason Clymo 1:58

Can you name them for some extra points?

James Parr 1:59

Well I can only name one, Bowen Yang.

Stephanie Dower 2:02

Hang on, is that the correct answer?

Jason Clymo 2:04

That is the correct answer.

Stephanie Dower 2:05

OK, right. I was, like, on the edge of my seat there, actually, can I jump in and like, you know... (LAUGHS)

Jason Clymo 2:11

OK, next question: of the 27 Oscar winners portraying disabled characters in film, how many have actually had lived experience of disability? So A, 27... (LAUGHTER)

Sorry, that's funny.

B,2... or C, 11?

Stephanie Dower 2:30

Steph. B, 2.

Jason Clymo 2:31

Yeah, correct. Well done. Well done.

Stephanie Dower 2:33

Ridiculous.

Jason Clymo 2:34

Yeah, so low!

Stephanie Dower 2:35

Yeah, but not surprising, unfortunately.

Olivia Muscat 2:38

Honestly, I was thinking one of the answers would be zero, (YEAH, LAUGHTER)

Stephanie Dower 2:42

Actually I'd like to, yeah. I'd like to know who the two are.

(all) 2:44

Coda? Yes. Coda, Oh, yeah. Troy, yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 2:48

And oh, and Marley Matlin, I think she won back in the day. Someone else. Okay, yeah, we figured them out. (LAUGHS)

Jason Clymo 2:53

We're just too good, guys. All right. So, of the 27 Oscar winners who have portrayed characters with disability in film, how many of those actors or actresses have actually had lived experience of disability? So A, 27... which is all of them...

James Parr 3:10

Seems likely. Plot twist.

Jason Clymo 3:12

B is 2, and C is 11.

Stephanie Dower 3:16

Steph. B, 2.

Jason Clymo 3:19

Correct. Can you name him?

Stephanie Dower 3:22

I mean... let me think, okay... Coda, Troy [?], yeah, and I think Marley Matlin won back in the day. Yeah, right. If she hasn't, she should, because she's amazing. But anyway... (LAUGHS)

James Parr 3:33

Like you're just too good, you're like a like, trivia Wiz, I swear.

Stephanie Dower 3:35

I mean, look, I pick and choose my moment.

Jason Clymo 3:38

Right, so last chance...

Olivia Muscat 3:39

Oh, gosh... ohhh...

Jason Clymo 3:40

Come on Liv...

Stephanie Dower 3:43

No pressure, no pressure.

Olivia Muscat 3:44

Too much pressure. (LAUGHTER)

Jason Clymo 3:45

Question three: what is something you'll never explicitly see being depicted in the Australian kids hit Bluey. So A is his yelling... B, his learning... and C, his barking.

Olivia Muscat 4:04

Olivia.

Jason Clymo 4:05

Yes.

Olivia Muscat 4:05

Is it C?

Jason Clymo 4:06

No, unfortunately no.

Stephanie Dower 4:08

It was A! (LAUGHTER) I was going to say C, I was like...

Jason Clymo 4:13

Well right, you're both out. What do you think it is, James?

James Parr 4:15

I feel like there would be somewhat yelling. So like learning.

Jason Clymo 4:18

Yeah - it is learning, yeah. The show's actu...

Speaker 1 4:21

You don't want to be too obvious. (LAUGHTER)

James Parr 4:24

Both the parents must be yelling and....

Stephanie Dower 4:26

Yeah, well, that's [?], there has to be yelling... yeah... [INDISTINCT] would make sense... yeah...

Jason Clymo 4:35

But no, it is actually be learning. So yeah, the show is the first of its kind to intentionally depict unconstructed childhood play.

Stephanie Dower 4:43

I mean, the game up, Keepy Uppy, you know, like, that's the great game. That's, yeah.

James Parr 4:48

You're also a Bluey expert, Steph.

Stephanie Dower 4:49

I am a Bluey expert. I'm from Brisbane. I have to be a blue expert.

James Parr 4:50

You're so expert you didn't... get the answer. (LAUGHS)

Stephanie Dower 4:55

We're all about sharing here, (LAUGHTER, INDISTINCT) I will, I will go and be like, Are you sure there's no explicit learning? (MUSIC STING) Okay, now it's time for Show and Talk. In this segment, we're gonna discuss pieces of media that each of our guests have brought to the table, and each piece of media will have some sort of disability representation included - whether it's good or bad, that's what we're here to discuss. So let's check out the clip for our first piece of media. (MUSIC STING)

(media clip) 5:28

(ALARM) Male 1: All right, stay calm everyone. Please make your way to the exit and leave your exam papers where they are. (CLAMOUR, ALARM) Single file. Don't run. Please remain calm, form two very distinctive lines behind me, we'll descend the stairs, exit outside and gather at the muster point. Nothing to worry about. Right, that's fine. We may need to find an alternative way. (INDISTINCT) Not being able to get where you need to go. What's happening? This is very disruptive. Ross, can you please sort out the alarm? 

(Male 2:) I've asked nicely multiple times the lift to be replaced, and nothing has changed. So yeah, I'm gonna be a little bit disruptive, because, quite frankly, I'm fucked off. I've got other things I need to be worried about, like whether I'm gonna get a good result in my exam, what I'm gonna have for dinner tonight, normal everyday shit. But instead, I'm here wasting my time explaining why accessibility is a big deal. Well, it should be a given. (MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 6:45

I think that is a slay. Honestly.

Stephanie Dower 6:46

That's... that's great, that's great. Honestly, look, I mean, there's a lot to talk about with sex education. Olivia, I believe you're the one who brought this to the table today?

Speaker 2 7:00

Yes, I did, and there is a lot to talk about, so much, so much good, actually, so much good in this show. And that clip is also really good, and it actually does... well, I couldn't see exactly what was happening, but I'm pretty sure I remember that it actually shows the accessibility fails for two characters, which is like unheard of, two people with disability in the one show, and they both have other stuff going on. Their characters are informed by their disabilities, but not defined by them. 

And I think that's great - except we get to this episode, and it kind of becomes the special episode about disability, and I think that's why I chose sex education, because it shows, yep, we've moved so far forward in how, you know, disabled people can be and are represented on TV and stuff. But then in the like, third last episode of the last season they try and squeeze in the very special episode, and I feel like that's where we are right now. It's like, look! Look at the disabled people, and now they're going to make a speech about why access is important and ableism is bad. I think the next step is, let's move past that, and let's show that and not tell that in such a like.... And today's very special episode of...

Stephanie Dower 8:29

I know, the exposition can sometimes be a bit, (NAUSEATING?) Yeah, and as much like... you know, if they... I would have loved Isaac to actually, you know, in that clip, just sort of be like, you know, drive past and be like, you know, see your fuckers, yeah. (LAUGHTER) It turned into a bit preachy, like...

Olivia Muscat 8:51

Yeah. I remember watching it for the first time, and oh, my stomach just dropped. I was like, oh... you've ruined it.

Jason Clymo 8:59

It was funny when, like, he was like, It sucks, doesn't it? And he could have just, just... (YEAH...)

Stephanie Dower 9:06

Like, we get the message, but we don't need the... standing on a soapbox, yeah, and I feel like getting on a soapbox (LAUGHS)

Olivia Muscat 9:13

We still feel like we need to really, yeah, explain it to death. And so, you know, even the really good instances of, you know, representation and the characters actually being played by the character actors with those disabilities and... and then we still get things like that, and it's like, okay, you know, we've still got work to do. Yeah, they did such a good job of leading up to this too. I remember watching it, and the elevator would break, always. And I was like, to me, that's enough, yeah. Like, that is so illustrative of so many people's experiences... nd I thought that was really clever. And then they did the preachy lesson episode... (LAUGHTER, INDISTINCT)

Jason Clymo 9:58

Literally. And it's like, kind of still so clear that they're making this content not for disabled people, like we don't need the preachy episode, you know, I find it relatable when there's the funny quips, you know, if he had just said, you know, Fucking sucks, doesn't it, and wheeled off, like, I would find that so entertaining.

Stephanie Dower 10:18

I mean, you know, I don't know about any of you guys on the panel, but correct me if I'm wrong, I myself, and no-one I know that has a disability would actually do this. No, like, you know, maybe they would, like, again, like, they maybe put the chairs there to block access or something, but they wouldn't sit there and make their little

Olivia Muscat 10:36

Like, the speech,

Stephanie Dower 10:37

Speech, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Jason Clymo 10:39

And also, like, kind of when you know how do you put all the chairs there, because that would have been have been fucking hard.

Stephanie Dower 10:43

Allies came to the table, yeah, literally.

James Parr 10:47

I also feel like what they're trying to do is, like, teach people sort of a lesson moment, right? I also feel like it being too preachy, no-one's going to respond to that. No-one's going to engage with it.

Olivia Muscat 10:58

It kind of undoes the good work of like, incidental...

Stephanie Dower 11:02

Yeah, it shines a spotlight on it. I know, like, you know, if we connect emotionally to characters and to stories, we're gonna learn from that. But if we feel like we're being preached to or taught a lesson, going back to the Bluey thing, explicit learning is needed, you know.

Jason Clymo 11:20

Have you finished the season yet, Olivia?

Olivia Muscat 11:22

Oh, yeah. Unfortunately, that episode really undid a lot of the good work for me. Like, it really tainted my view. And I was like, I can still acknowledge all the good things. And I thought especially, they brought in the character whose name I can't remember, who was from the deaf community, and she was one of the, like, you know, the the Plastics, let's just call them that... and I was like, love I love it. It's great. And so generally, overall, I, you know... give it a good score, good grade. You know, there were issues. There are always issues.

Stephanie Dower 11:57

I find this kind of stuff often comes from non-disabled individuals, like being outraged on our behalf, like... and doing...

Jason Clymo 12:07

The good old saviour.

Stephanie Dower 12:09

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's like we, you know, like, again, I don't know anyone that would actually do that in real life. I know that's not real life, but... it is what it is, you know. But anyway, I'd love to know where the, where this came from and who was pushing for this particular scene.

Jason Clymo 12:24

We can hopefully get that off-air commentary, which is great. Our little researcher Steph... (YEAH) get back into the research labs.

Stephanie Dower 12:31

That's right.

Jason Clymo 12:32

Time to move on to our next clip. (MUSIC STING)

Speaker 3 12:36

(FEMALE 1:) You fly around Oz, trying to rescue animals you've never even met, and not once have you ever thought to use your powers to rescue me? (SINGING) All of my life have depended on you. How do you think that feels all of my life have depended on you, and this hideous chair with wheels, scrounging for scraps of pity to pick up...and (MUSIC SLOWS) wanting to kick up my heels... (Female 2:) Nessa, there isn't a spell for everything. The power is mysterious. It's not like toppling up a prayer. Wait... (MUSIC) (Female 1:) (SINGS IN UNKNOWN LANGUAGE) (Female 2:) What are you doing? What does that mean (Female 1 continues singing) (Female 2:) Whoa! My shoes! It feels like they're on fire! What have you done to my shoes? (SCREAMS) (DRAMATIC MUSIC) (MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 13:26

Baby. I love wicked, but... I just... I can't.

Stephanie Dower 13:42

But that's the thing, like, we can love things and still take issues with certain parts of it, you know. The complexities...

Jason Clymo 13:49

It literally gives me goosebumps. So I don't want to spew.

James Parr 13:52

I watched the musical for the first time, like two, look a month ago in prep for the movie. So I actually had no idea about any of this story, to be quite honest. And so I sat down, I was like, Yeah, whatever. And it's just like her whole character arc for this Nessa is that she's so mad at her sister, and she lives such an unhappy life because she can't walk, and it's all her sister's fault, and she's not going to be happy until she's able to have the ability to walk - which, you know that could be true or whatever. But as I looked around, I was like, this is full of children. The inference, and the thing that we're teaching them here is that disability is bad, and you can't have a happy life until you're able...

Olivia Muscat 14:36

And you make other people's lives miserable.

Speaker 4 14:38

Yeah, and then I felt icked out sitting there watching it, and then I'm like, it's just, like, harmful exposure to children, because then that's going to start to infer the perception on disability, and that's where it begins.

Stephanie Dower 14:50

I'm really, I'm really, really curious to know what they're going to do with the movie. Because, like, the show came out in I think maybe 2002, 2003.

Olivia Muscat 15:00

So I was a Wicked nerd as a teenager. (YEAH, LAUGHTER)

Stephanie Dower 15:03

So, you know, that's a product of like, 20 years ago... but obviously, you know, they haven't really updated it in the stage show. So I'm really curious to know... actually, John M Chu, who's directing the Wicked movie... I think it was, he had an assistant a number of years ago, and she actually has lived experience of disability. And I can't remember if she was... no, I think she stopped working for him before he moved on to this... but anyway, I'm really curious to know how they're going to approach it, because, like, yeah, as you said, James, the whole character arc is, there's nothing much redeeming, even the whole thing. 

My thing is, always, I remember like, Glinda the Good Witch, being like to one of the characters who's like, obsessed with her, being like, look at the poor girl over there. Tragically beautiful, yeah. Tragically beautiful girl, exactly, yeah, and the one...

James Parr 15:58

And then a guy takes her to the prom or whatever it is because he feels sorry for her...

Stephanie Dower 16:02

... my honour, yeah? Like, oh, [?] like, what? Yeah, okay... so, yeah, there's nothing really redeeming disability-wise.

Jason Clymo 16:11

It's probably the most reductive harmful.

Stephanie Dower 16:15

It's like they've taken every sort of harmful trope and put it into this one character...

Olivia Muscat 16:20

Literally, and then always cast a non-disabled person to play it. (INDISTINCT...)

Jason Clymo 16:25

... spoken about the like... (INDISTINCT) I was gonna say, [?] touched on the fact that, like, she's using magic to, like, quote, unquote, cure disability as well... got to that part. Shredding the...

Stephanie Dower 16:39

Yeah, exactly.

James Parr 16:40

I'm gonna go see Wicked next weekend, actually. And just close my eyes and ... (INDISTINCT) Just go up to the front and... Hi everyone... (LAUGHTER, INDISTINCT)

Stephanie Dower 16:54

Don't pay any attention to this one, yeah. But I know for the movie, I'm sure the casting callout was for someone with lived experience.

Jason Clymo 17:03

I've seen it in the trailer, there's definitely a person with lived experience...

James Parr 17:07

... be interesting to see because then also I don't know,

Stephanie Dower 17:11

No, exactly how...

Olivia Muscat 17:16

It's so integral to like... Elphaba's shame about who she is, and her mother dying, and blah blah...

James Parr 17:23

I just feel like that part could just be reworked to include a true lived experience of someone with a disability, because that's not true.

Stephanie Dower 17:31

Yeah. I'm so curious. I'm so curious. I mean, the music's amazing. You know, we love the music, it gives us chills. But, yeah, I'm gonna be super curious to know how they rework it if they do.

Jason Clymo 17:42

Can I also just say I'm stressed with the fact that you went to see the musical to prepare you for the movie. And I know because I know you...

Stephanie Dower 17:44

But you also wait until now.

Jason Clymo 17:52

Ariana Grande. I would not have been there. (MUSIC STING) And now it's time for Ads Askew. In this segment we've prepared one TV ad that portrays people with disability inside the ad - whether it's good, whether it's bad, whether it's problematic, whether it's fantastic, is something we'll all be discovering together, because none of us have seen this ad yet. So... let's roll it. (MUSIC STING)

Speaker 5 18:18

(Female:) Attention mothers - did you take Tylenol or other acetaminophen pain relieving products while pregnant. Recent evidence suggests children whose mothers took Tylenol while pregnant may be more likely to develop autism. Other acetaminophen products at risk include excedrins, NyQuil, DayQuil and other store brand pain relievers. Children with autism have a hard time interacting with others. Those on the spectrum usually begin exhibiting social symptoms by the time they're eight to ten months old. Call now for a free, confidential consultation. (Male:) Call, 800-608-1425. (MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 18:49

Teeny, tiny...

Stephanie Dower 18:51

No-one can read, yeah.

Olivia Muscat 18:53

Is that real? (NO...)

Stephanie Dower 18:54

I, you know what? I think that's from America.

Jason Clymo 18:56

That's definitely America.

Stephanie Dower 18:58

Yeah. Has anyone viewed American medical ads on TV there?

Olivia Muscat 19:03

Can't say I have...

Stephanie Dower 19:05

They're... we don't have those types of ads here in Australia because, like, our pharmacies can't, or our pharmaceutical companies can't market direct to consumer I don't believe - whereas in America you can. And so it's really interesting to watch. Like, I remember, so, like, you know, my diagnosis is rheumatoid arthritis. And they always play ads over there where, like, it's kind of like the infomercials that we see here, and it's like, it'll be black and white, and people will be really sad, they won't be able to move, they're in so much pain, all that kind of thing. 

And then they take whatever drug they're advertising, and suddenly they're in a field of flowers, and they're running and they're playing with their grandchildren, or they're playing with their families, and... life is good, yeah, and life is good. But while they've got these, like, you know, beautiful, like, you know, idyllic, you know, scenes playing in front of you, they're reading out the potential side-effects (LAUGHTER) and, like, it's like, you know, May. Cause death, may cause anxiety, may cause internal bleeding.

Jason Clymo 19:48

But super fast.

Stephanie Dower 20:06

It's not that fast, no, it's actually, you hear what they're saying. Yeah. So this gives me those vibes.

Olivia Muscat 20:11

Is that from a competitor of Tylenol? (YEAH, INDISTINCT)

Jason Clymo 20:20

it was lik... So I also didn't really get it until the very end... [?] justice...

Stephanie Dower 20:25

Okay, yeah, right. So it's basically being like, has Tylenol done this to you or your child? Like, call us and... we'll get you justice. (LAUGHTER)

Jason Clymo 20:34

Yeah. It just gives, like, all of the theories around, like, BPA, like causing and I'm like... yeah, let's just, like, sum up the whole like, group of people's existence with just, like, children, yeah, literally...

Stephanie Dower 20:49

But yeah, it's also, it's seeing it in a negative light, like, oh, this has caused your life to be terrible. This has caused, you know, like, all the negative consequences. We can help you. We can help you. We can right you're wrong. Like, money will help everything, right? You know, yeah, so...

Jason Clymo 21:06

God, I can only imagine, like, when they're suing for damages or something... (YEAH) how problematic that would be...

Stephanie Dower 21:11

And this is why you have like labels on everything,

Jason Clymo 21:14

Literally, literally... but yeah, there's like new theories out around, like, BPA, like the plastic...

Stephanie Dower 21:20

Interesting. I haven't heard that one, yeah.

Jason Clymo 21:22

But why are we so obsessed with eradicating disability, though? Like, is my main thing.

Stephanie Dower 21:27

Yeah. Yeah.

It's, it's, but it's very, you know, that kind of language I've always found very Other-ing, you know, it's us vs them. It's like, if you, if this happens, you know, then you'll be one of Them. You'll be right over there. Yeah, watch out, it's so like fear-mongering, yeah, and it's causing disability to continue to be perpetuated as this thing to fear. Yeah, you know, you don't want your life to be like that. You know it's like, well...

Olivia Muscat 21:57

See that person over there, you don't end up like that. So like...

James Parr 22:00

Like something has happened to them, like it's not just them. Like...

Stephanie Dower 22:03

Yeah, it's not just, yeah, exactly

James Parr 22:05

Something's happened to like, the worst that cpould happen...

Jason Clymo 22:08

This instance actually is really interesting, because it's also playing a lot on, like, the parents guilt, yeah, as well (YEAH...) ... and I think there's a lot of just misinformation around about autism as well.

Olivia Muscat 22:21

Your child had a fever and you gave them paracetamol. Now they're weird...

Stephanie Dower 22:29

Now they're for this forever...

And they'll be lonely for...

But again, we'll win you some money, and everything will be fine. It's all good!

Jason Clymo 22:36

Yeah, literally.

Stephanie Dower 22:38

So not the best...

Jason Clymo 22:39

So that ad is very Askew... (LAUGHTER) (INDISTINCT) (MUSIC STING)So before we... head off and let you guys go, we love to get some Speedy Suggestions from our guests, and Steph and I also prepare some things for those watching along at home - any kind of advice around film or TV shows that they should check out with disability rep? Any kind of accessibility, inclusion kind of advice... so Olivia.

Olivia Muscat 23:11

Two quick ones. One is, look in the places that everyone else isn't looking. So for good, interesting, nuanced disability rep, find fringe theatre and weird web series and stuff, because that's... where it's happening, because there's still barriers for mainstream, but people who are out there making their own stuff, and there's barriers to that as well, that's where you find the really good stuff. 

But for a really famous one that I actually thought of while I was thinking about sex education and the very after school special episode - in the complete opposite to that, another like, well-known show that probably most people have seen but takes a disabled character and does something friggin' awesome with their like feature episode is Only Murders in the Building. (Yeah, yeah.) So if you haven't, by chance, seen that, go do it. (LAUGHTER)

Stephanie Dower 23:14

You literally just took my suggestion. (LAUGHTER)

Jason Clymo 23:23

I fully endorse that message, by the way.

Stephanie Dower 23:30

That's so good. Are we talking about... character of theory, that? Yes, almost the entire episode is silence. It's all ASL and... yeah, it's incredible. Yes, I support that.

Olivia Muscat 24:29

Thanks you. The message is endorsed, excellent.

Jason Clymo 24:33

Bye, everybody. James?

James Parr 24:34

Look, mine's just short. I think more, so if you are watching something that does have a really bad representation of someone with a disability. If you know someone with a disability, have a chat about it, so that representation and that portrayal does not inflict... your own opinion and sort of create that perception from there, try and unlearn it.

Jason Clymo 24:52

Yeah, that's nice - actively unlearning. Yeah. I like it. Mine's an accessibility suggestion based on Steph's experiences this morningin Melbourne - basically, just don't trust the Metro tram stops outside of the city loop for accessibility. It's just not gonna happen.

Stephanie Dower 25:09

You may get stuck in ride all the way to Coburg. (LAUGHTER)

Jason Clymo 25:13

I mean, there's a few train stations as well where I'm like... looks accessible, but then there's like, a big fuck off hill. So...

Stephanie Dower 25:19

And every city is going to have a different Metro situation or transit situation? Yeah, I've endorsed that message. My suggestion for today's episode is actually a Japanese anime film called Josie, the Tiger and the Fish. So one of the lead characters is a wheelchair user. I will say there is some issues with the... representation, or like the story arc, or character arc, I should say - she is kind of like sort of removed a bit from the world at the start, and then it sort of takes someone to come into her life and but they kind of like help each other along the way as well. 

And I find it's also really interesting to watch films from other cultures to see how they handle or treat disability as well, because obviously, we're coming at it from, like, a western point of view. I'm always curious to see how it's portrayed in other cultures. So yeah, Josie, the Tiger and the Fish. All right, everyone, that's all we have time for in this episode. But before we go, we just want to check in with our guests and see where you can all go and check out their amazing work. So, Olivia, where can our guests find more about you?

Olivia Muscat 26:30

Sure. So I'm repped by Loom Arts and Management, so if you want to, you know, book me for some real work, go there. But if you just kind of want to see what I'm up to sometimes, I'm on Instagram at OA Muscat, I guess I think that's my Instagram.

Stephanie Dower 26:49

We'll find you.

Olivia Muscat 26:49

Yeah, I'm there. I'm around.

Stephanie Dower 26:51

Nice. And James, you?

Unknown Speaker 26:53

Yeah, all my work is housed on my website, which is jamesparr.com.au, and then just my Instagram is just underscore James Parr.

Stephanie Dower 27:00

Amazing. Well, yeah, awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing your suggestions and your thoughts on all things disability on screen. Thank you Jason as well for being so slay... (LAUGHS)

Jason Clymo 27:13

Had to do once...

Stephanie Dower 27:14

And thank you everyone at home for watching Reframed. Stay tuned for more. (MUSIC OUT)