Reframed - Jasper Peach and John O'Donnell

Jason Clymo 0:06

Foreign Welcome to reframe the panel show that analyzes all things disability in media.

Jason Clymo 0:17

I'm Jason Climo

Stephanie Dower 0:18

and I'm Stephanie Dower, and let's meet our special guest for the day. First up, we have Jasper peach, who is a trans, non binary and disabled writer, speaker and parent. Jasper published their first book. You'll be a wonderful parent in 2023 and have written for the age the big issue and SBS, amongst many other things, welcome, Jasper. Many

Jason Clymo 0:40

thanks. Welcome. Thanks for being here joining us today. We also have John O'Donnell, who is a disability advocate as a person with an intellectual disability. He hosted all in on Channel 31 and is about to also start a new disability themed radio show with joy FM. That's amazing. Congratulations. Thanks. First up, let's spend some time getting to know both of our guests. So Jasper, my first question for you is, how do your personal experiences with disability inform which kinds of stories you tell?

Jasper Peach 1:14

I think about the people who don't have stories about us, and that's not all I do, but we are always woven through the tapestry of of the storytelling, because we're part of humanity, and it's really important to have that representation across the board, in in written work, in visual work, in parliament, in positions of power, it's really important that we are always part of the discussion. Yeah, 100%

Stephanie Dower 1:47

couldn't agree more. I want to ask about how, obviously intersectionality is a big part of your story as a trans, non binary person, and also someone living with disability and all the aspects of your identity. How do you feel like they interact or intersect to strengthen your creative practice?

Jasper Peach 2:08

I never run out of things to work on, that's for sure, whether it's written or sound waves, most of my work is really just about having good conversation, although I talk it's mainly about listening and then elevating other voices, making sure that we're present in in the forefront of people's minds.

Stephanie Dower 2:30

I love that. I love that so succinct, yeah, like, beautiful. It's unusual. It's almost like you're a writer. Over

Jason Clymo 2:37

to John. My question for you, John is, what is one misconception that you want to change about having an intellectual disability?

John O'Donnell 2:45

So people think our intellectual people disability, that we are being in this disability, that we are in queer poems, and we are in day services like chartered workshops. And I really want to change that. I wouldn't want to push that, that we can be in media, that we can be in TV, we can be in anywhere in the society, that we can be pushing barriers and hopefully open up different opportunities, like hopefully some way, some day, we'll have some disability news presenter probably in like, who's sunrise, or in something like that. So awesome, won't it? Hopefully? Hopefully channel seven. Look out.

Stephanie Dower 3:37

Watch this space Absolutely. I mean, you've kind of already answered this a little bit, but just going to a little bit further. Why do you think it is so important for us to be a part of those conversations on TV and in radio?

John O'Donnell 3:53

It's because our voices are heard and and and we are uplifted, and just more uplift us. I know when I first started radio and started radio program, it really made a difference in disability lives, and especially with channel 31 I see my my fellow comrades, that their confidence boosts because of and we know that we can each, each week that we're going through the radio and on TV, our our our confidence boosts. And each time we do it, we just got get stronger, stronger, stronger. Yeah, our world is, is our oyster. So look out.

Stephanie Dower 4:41

Yes, again. Watch this space, right? John is taking over. All right. Now it's time to test our guests pop culture knowledge with Get your head in the frame. All right, everyone, I'll be asking four multiple choice questions about pop culture and media now. Please wait until they read out the responses. Otherwise, we get ahead of ourselves in this very exciting lightning round. All right, let's get started. Everyone. Hands near buzzes. Question number one in 2011 Barack Obama appointed American actress and Down Syndrome activist Lauren Potter to the committee of people with intellectual disabilities. Potter is best known for playing a cheerleader on which TV series hold it a, Glee, B, Riverdale or C, iCarly, oh, Jasper, oh, it's glee. You are correct.

Jasper Peach 5:42

I'm really sorry. Yeah, I'm not a very nice person who needs competition. I

Stephanie Dower 5:45

think this might be the most competitive round we've played. I love this. I know I love it. Bring it on. Bring it on. Yes, yes. All right, everyone. Question number two, which character did English actor Warwick Davis play in Harry Potter. A, Barty Crouch, Jr, B, Dobby or C, grip hook. Oh, Jason, grip hook. You are correct. There you go. I've, I've heard of Dobby. I've now heard of the other two, really, yeah, god, look,

Jason Clymo 6:20

this is not the time or place, but I could give you a real education.

Stephanie Dower 6:24

All right. All right, so let's do a telly. Jason, one, Jasper, one. John, this is your time, time to shine. All right, everyone, question number three, Deaf you is a reality TV series featuring deaf students at which university a, California Institute of Technology. B, Gallaudet University, or C, Princeton University, Jasper. B, you are correct. I was gonna say I've heard of the other two. I've not heard of Gallaudet. Gallaudet. I think Gallaudet,

Jasper Peach 7:01

I I'm really bad at pronouncing words. Gala audio,

Stephanie Dower 7:04

I'm not sure it's whatever we want it to be today,

Jasper Peach 7:07

and that's that's really unfair, because I used to be an Auslan interpreter. All right, I have some knowledge there. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Stephanie Dower 7:15

Don't apologize. You did the work, yeah. All right. All right, Jasper, you're leading the pack here. This is your time to shine. I think you might. I mean, we'll see, see how we guys. John could still get there. John could still get there. Jason, maybe not so much. Yeah. Fruit, okay. Final question. Australian comedy series, the Angus project, featured main character, Angus with cerebral palsy, who was aspiring to which career? A, a doctor, B, a sports journalist, or C, a truck driver, a

John O'Donnell 7:51

news journalist. Yep, you're correct. Yes,

Stephanie Dower 7:55

all right. Well, congrats everyone. What an awesome game of get your head in the frame. But obviously, biggest congrats to our overall champion, Jasper. Thank you. Thank you very much for playing.

Jason Clymo 8:09

Now it's time for show and talk. Both of our fantastic guests have brought a piece of media along with them, which includes disability representation on screen. So we're going to take a look and analyze these two pieces of media. Jasper, yeah, what have you brought in for us? Well,

Jasper Peach 8:25

it might be a bit triggering for anyone who has gone through a diagnosis situation, and what we're looking at is the first episode of House. MD, yeah, the screaming eyeball say

Jason Clymo 8:39

it all, yeah, literally. Okay, let's take a look.

Speaker 1 8:42

I'm tired a lot. Any other reason why you think you might have chronic fatigue syndrome?

Jasper Peach 8:49

It's kind of the

Speaker 1 8:50

definition, isn't it? It's kind of the definition of getting older. I had a couple headaches last month, mild fever. Sometimes I can't sleep and I have trouble concentrating, apparently, not while we're searching this stuff on the internet, I was thinking it also might be fibromyalgia,

Unknown Speaker 9:09

excellent diagnosis.

Speaker 1 9:10

Is there anything before that? Do you know I think the person might Be 36 by could in change for $1

Speaker 1 9:42

you exam room two, Doctor House. You have a patient. He

Speaker 1 9:59

says. Needs a refill. Got changed for $1

Stephanie Dower 10:06

Okay, so Jasper, what was it that made you bring house to our attention today?

Jasper Peach 10:13

Just thought it was a sparkling representation of what it is to face the medical system as someone who has dared to look into what might be happening in their own body and then to be completely ridiculed by a bitch ass jerk like Dr House, who should know better. He has a disability. He's been through it, but because he's gone through the educational I'm not going to say that word, but it's a, it's a, what's it called a revolving, a revolving door for jerks, right? They beat the humanity out of people. And somehow, not all, not all doctors, but not all doctors are like this, but so many that we face when we are at our darkest hour when we are the sickest we've ever been, the most terrified. Will pull a stunt like this and go, I knew they were full of it. It's really devastating, and it makes me really mad, and it informs probably 60% of the work I do. And this, this I was something I watched during the month when I first became disabled, and would go on to get those diagnoses, and I had a lot of internalized ableism at that time. And thought, Oh, that is such a funny joke, and it took a long time to unravel that and look at who the real culprit in this situation is it's not someone who's feeling like they need support and they need care.

Speaker 2 11:48

It's, it's the bitch ass jerk.

Jasper Peach 11:51

It's the bitch ass jerk, which is, I mean, the the health system, healthcare system in America is, is devastatingly woeful, and I, I would hate to think what would have become of me if I lived there. But yeah, there's a lot of bitterness. Yeah, in practitioners,

Stephanie Dower 12:14

it's a, yeah, absolutely, it's a shame. I mean, obviously in you know, TV setting, it's used as, like the bottom of a joke, which is, you know, unfortunate, and you're right, yeah, bitch house, Jack is a very good way to describe dog down. It, does? It, does? It really encapsulates his character, yeah? But it's, yeah, but it is, like, it's absolutely bringing to, you know, bringing to light, or, you know, should be bringing to light a really serious issue when there's a disconnect between sort of that empathy that you need to find the support that you're seeking, versus, you know, your experience as a person and seeking assistance and you know, guidance as to where you're going with your own health health journey. So yeah, it's unfortunate. I mean, there's a whole discourse around also disability and the medical world. You know, it's unfortunately something that I think a lot of us have faced over the years. And, you know, I find it really fascinating, like, I've had some health stuff a couple of years ago, and I found it really interesting that quite often, like the medical world and disability world is lumped together because that's what people assume, like, Oh, we're sick, we're we know we're always going to hospitals, and that kind of thing, which is often I know from my experience, and I know others, not often the case. And so when you do face that world, I found, I found it quite um, confronting that the medical world wasn't as adept at dealing with disability. I remember going to I was at a hospital, and I asked where an accessible toilet was, and no one could answer me. I was like, Wow, am I wait what like should that'll be the first thing that, yeah. And, you know, I had doctors come in and I ended up having appendicitis, and they just take one look at your body that's different to the norm, and they're like, oh, oh, I don't know how we're gonna deal with that. The two heart basket, yeah, literally, it's like, where's the Yeah, where's that? You know, I'm looking to you for your expertise. You know, where is that, John,

John O'Donnell 14:18

I have that. I have experience. I'm just ready. On the 19th I've got, I'm just about ready for a surgery. And they looked in my palate, because I've got a high pallet, and they said, yours, yours is not palette. It's not normal. We can you've got high palette. We can't do you. We've got to push your case back because of your we don't want you to have to cause you more disability that you've got.

Speaker 3 14:53

So frustrating, it's quite astounding.

John O'Donnell 14:56

Yeah, no, and it is actually. You, yeah? So we, instead of we're doing, we're pushing you back to the week later. But still, it's just

Jasper Peach 15:09

yeah, you're being pushed back in the queue,

Stephanie Dower 15:12

yeah, because you're in the too high basket, as you said, Yeah. I

Jasper Peach 15:16

think another element of that clip is I really wanted to focus on is that there are a lot of invisible disabilities, and both of those conditions, fibromyalgia and MECFS, there's not a lot of testing that can be done to prove that they have any it's anecdotal, and when you're facing experts who come from a position of automatically, like Dr house assumes that everyone lies, assumes they know better, assumes this person wants attention or whatever hateful crap comes at us, whether overtly or covertly, it can be really difficult to find a way forward to live your life and just live the Best life that you

Stephanie Dower 16:01

can with what you've got. Well, again, you go seeking expertise, and if the experts can't help you, where do you go? So

Jasper Peach 16:09

yeah, I mean, I found within my own community, within the disabled community, that's where I'll go to for expertise or pathways to good specialists who have good politics, and

Stephanie Dower 16:20

that's it. When you do find those good because there are good doctors out there. There are definitely good ones out there, but yeah, once you find them, hang on to them

Jason Clymo 16:29

absolutely. Yeah. Any last thing I thought I'd quickly point out is that Dr house obviously also has some lived experience of disability as well. Whether he would identify that way or not, not sure. I think it is really interesting, because although community is often where we will go as a safe space, it's not always a safe space either.

Jasper Peach 16:49

Not every disabled person is lovely

Jason Clymo 16:52

and we don't know, shockingly, I know we don't all have this one unanimous, uniform experience that we all share either. So we're all constantly learning from each other. And I think the reason why it's a safe community is because a lot of us, not all of us, are always open and willing to learn from each other and respect each other.

Stephanie Dower 17:13

So yeah, absolutely. I just want to bring it back to house for one last second. I find it really interesting that house was created by David Shaw, same creator as the good doctor, all right, which features an autistic doctor in it. I We don't have time to go into too much detail around this, but I would love to know how that process came about. Like, how did he come up with both of those ideas, and like he seems to be very fascinated by us, yeah, so secretly, the whole world is though totally we're a very fascinating bunch,

Jasper Peach 17:52

and generally quite attractive, of course, of course,

Stephanie Dower 17:55

that's goes without saying. Yeah. Anyway, thank you so much Jasper for discussing house with us and John,

John O'Donnell 18:02

I what I brought in. I brought in an awesome I've got a friend who I've shared the World Commission journey with. So His name's Julie Cartwright, and he's made a documentary of himself following actually this. So it was launched in 2019 and it was actually what national day of disability. So it launched five years ago, and it has changed people's lives. It has changed my obviously, it's changed my life, because I keep on watching it, if I feel I'm down, I'm depressed, I put it on and I get in trouble from you stop watching it, you know. You know off your heart, you know, because I love it so much. But yeah, like, he, he, he's very he made. The movie is very good. I'm the clip that I've I've actually picked, pick it out, showing him in very tough, dark time. It was the same, it was a clip that was in the middle of the film that you you actually go from it, from a big like a roller coaster, and the big, the scene that I picked was a big down point in his life.

Stephanie Dower 19:25

So, all right, well, let's take a look at that clip from life is a battlefield.

Speaker 4 19:32

I'm kind of coping, kind of not coping, but like, I don't sleep. I took like a natural sleeping tablet last night and like a sedative to help me sleep. And I only slept like four hours. I turned around to my psychiatrist, and I said, I've got two options, either get help with whatever I need help with which I don't know what I need help with. I. The first step in changing is to admit it. So, yeah, more fighting for no reason. I hate confrontation, like you never know where help is going to come from. Appreciate it, because I could have no one in my mind, I do have no one. And you know what, some people think they have no one, but there are people there, you know what? But I had no one. I thought the last person to come to my rescue actually came to my rescue, and that was Michael. So I had no one. He came in, we filmed

Unknown Speaker 20:44

and like, we just got close. Ever since then, for some reason, I'm only as good as my team. I'm only as good as the people around me.

Speaker 4 20:52

Like, I literally flipped it. I had a massive breakdown two days ago, and that wasn't suicidal depression. That was, I'm gonna everyone, this is my domain. There's a vine kingdom. And to be honest, this room is how messy my brain is at the moment. So it's uncomfortable in this room, somewhat a little bit. It's a bit disturbing, but that's okay,

Stephanie Dower 21:21

all right, such an interesting documentary. Tell us a bit about, I guess you know what you want to discuss about it.

John O'Donnell 21:28

So it was, for me, it was so it follows people with disabilities. So it was five years of his life. So it made so you actually go through him getting off site, trustees, him becoming independent, more independent, just different, like it's, it's a really good watch. It's a good movie to watch it. It does push people with barrier, people with people with disability. I know I get a bit pushed by it, but it does, actually, it's a good it's a good film to just be to educate for people with disability and also that people in politicians should watch it, because it's, it's very educational as well.

Stephanie Dower 22:21

Yeah, I found it really fascinating the style of documentary. It felt so intimate, like it felt like we opened Yulee his mind, and we just got to see directly inside, which I think is really cool and not often able to be achieved through screens. It really was his story being told by his voice. I, I've,

John O'Donnell 22:43

I've got another friend who's done documentary I've done, Thomas banks. Oh yeah, he didn't, not, not like this death. And I'm actually going to watch a space and I say it out there, he has spied me to make a documentary about my life, but my story and look out, yes, me, me and him with, like, the same stories are very aligned to each other and yeah, like, it's yeah, a lot, a lot to a lot of yearly, yeah, I also found

Stephanie Dower 23:15

it really interesting, like, obviously, it goes into detail around his disability and his struggles with mental health and that. But I also found it interesting exploring his experience as a foster child, and he interviewed with his foster mom and talked about how, you know his relationship with his birth parents, so and how that all was impacted by his medical conditions as a young child. So I thought that was a really, you know, again, we got to see a bit more into his world and his experience and yeah, and also,

John O'Donnell 23:48

especially when, when his own parents is impacted by career. I don't have really good relationship with my parents, but I do have good relationships with my entertainment dad. I have the best relationship when my interchange mom and dad, then then my own parents. My parents can be a bit rocky at times, but, yeah, I still love them. But

Stephanie Dower 24:09

yeah, yeah, family dynamics. They complicated, very,

John O'Donnell 24:13

very Tom very, very complicated. Yes, yeah, there's there's

Jasper Peach 24:15

biological family, and then there's logical family too. And both are so valuable. Yeah, yeah. I

Stephanie Dower 24:22

love that description, logical family. I think that, yeah, not heard that before. That's so good, nice. All right. Well, thank you both so much for bringing such interesting discussions to the table. I enjoyed, really both of those. So thank you. Before we wrap up, we're going to give our audience at home some speedy suggestions. So what we're going to do is we're going to go around to each of the panelists, and we're going to ask each of them to recommend something, perhaps in the media, that represents disability in a positive light, or it could be something like an app, a book, or maybe it's just like a. A tip or a hack from your day to day life. So all right, John, we might start with you. What is your speedy suggestion?

John O'Donnell 25:06

My speedy suggestion is, look at all in, all in isn't on Channel 30, channel 31 but at the moment, it's actually going to be on community TV. It is very much representative of disability in the media, so look at people in media space. You need to be looking at this. It's it's five weeks of of disability, but just disability. I'm talking about different different topics.

Stephanie Dower 25:36

All right. Thanks. John Jasper, I'm

Jasper Peach 25:37

going to recommend a podcast. It's called insulation, and you can find it on YouTube or Spotify, but YouTube is great if you can watch things, because it's very brightly colored. It's a bit like the inside of my brain. M is and insulators will know this spiel, a writer, a singer, a stand up comedian, a maximalist power queen, a neurodivergent magic brain, and a podcaster, but we know her from season two of Australian Idol, one of my special interests, if you remember, Dicko told her she looked like Pauline Hanson, and then she was basically robbed. Went on to do breakfast radio, a whole bunch of stuff. But we might also know her from speaking at the National Press Club about the ADHD crisis, where there is not enough support for people to seek diagnosis and treatment. And her podcast is just, it's a very inclusive, wonderful, soothing brain moment

Stephanie Dower 26:36

is this and Russia? No, yes, I saw her press club talk and, oh my goodness, that was so good. Yeah, yeah,

Jasper Peach 26:44

things that needed to be said. And I just love her. She's a full diva,

Stephanie Dower 26:50

very often quaint. Yeah, absolutely so

Jason Clymo 26:52

her wicked interview. Oh my God, I know I almost died

Jasper Peach 26:56

watching yeah. I mean, rip both of us. Yes.

Stephanie Dower 27:01

Anyway, Jason,

Jason Clymo 27:04

mine isn't what is a suggestion, but it's basically, I'm just going to tell you all home to go Google what Universal Design is and start actually talking more about it. And if you're the type of person that works in a job where you are designing things, start implementing the principles around it into your work. Yeah,

Stephanie Dower 27:22

absolutely universal design is one of those things that it's not purely designed, designed for people with disabilities, but it's literally universal. It helps every single person out there. So if you work those into your design, whatever it may be, it means that everyone's going to be able to access your thing. So, yeah, amazing, cool. Well, my speedy suggestion is a book. It is by Hannah devony. It's called I'll let myself in, and it is if you've ever met Hannah, or if you've ever seen her speak anywhere. The book is exactly how she talks and how she is. It is very, very on point and very as a young, particularly young like woman reading it as someone with disability, it is very, very relevant to my own experience, and I'm sure lots of other people's experiences out there. So yes, definitely check that out. I'll let myself in by Hannah devony, brilliant,

Jason Clymo 28:27

awesome. Wow. Thank you both for being here. Jasper, John, this was so much fun. And Steph, thank you for being my amazing co host. But before we do say goodbye, where can people find you? Online. Bookie for work, connect with you. John,

John O'Donnell 28:45

so for me, for me, Joy FM, I'm Miss summer. I'm going to be on radio. I'm going to be on radio. So you can get on to me on the app. Joy FM, app, amazing,

Stephanie Dower 28:59

fantastic. Good luck with it all. Yeah, and Jasper,

Jasper Peach 29:04

oh, I just needed to pick this up. This, my book came out last year. I'd like to write more books, if there are publishers watching this. But Mommy, Jasper, peach.com.au,

Stephanie Dower 29:17

I love it. Yeah, that's That's amazing. Thank you for bringing not just show and talk but show and tell.

Jason Clymo 29:22

You brought a prop.

Jasper Peach 29:25

You brought your book, The friendly banana,

Jason Clymo 29:28

so cute. I love how colorful it is as well. Yeah, thank you amazing. Well, thank you so much again. That's it for this episode. Be sure to check us out on social media and until next time bye,

John O'Donnell 29:39

bye, you.