Reframed - Episode 3 – Dinesh Palipana, Rita Havea

(MUSIC STING) 

Jason Clymo 0:06

Welcome to Reframed, the panel show that analyses all things disability in media. I'm one of your co-hosts, Jason Clymo. I'm a young queer person with disability who has doubled in some modelling acting, and I'm also a business owner. I'm fiercely passionate about the accurate representation of people with disability on screen.

Stephanie Dower 0:30

And I'm Stephanie Dower. I am a filmmaker and access coordinator, and I'm also a keen traveller. And I'm really excited to talk all things disability on screen with our wonderful guests on today's panel. So first up, we have Rita Havea. Rita is a model, actor, public speaker, content creator, and a disability and inclusivity advocate, all of the things. (ALL LAUGH). She has walked in Melbourne Fashion Week and collaborated with many top fashion brands.

Jason Clymo 0:59

Welcome Rita.

Rita Havea 1:00

Thank you guys. Thank you.

Jason Clymo 1:02

We also have Dinesh Palipana with us today, who was once the first quadriplegic medical intern in Queensland, now an award winning doctor, lawyer, disability advocate and researcher. He was also a senior advisor to the disability Royal Commission, and is an ambassador to the Human Rights Commission's Includeability program, and a founding member of Doctors with Disability Australia. Among many achievements, Dinesh was awarded the Medal of the Order of Australia in 2019 and released his autobiography Stronger in 2022. Welcome Dinesh.

Dinesh Palipana 1:35

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Jason Clymo 1:37

Really excited to get stuck into today's episode. 

(MUSIC STING)

Now it is time for our first segment, and I am in the chair of power. (RITA LAUGHS) It is Get Your Head in the Frame - where I'll be asking three multiple choice questions to our three wonderful people in the panel. (LAUGHTER) All right. Question one: in 2024, what is the number one genre in all console gaming? A, shooter... B, role playing... or C, adventure? Dinesh.

Dinesh Palipana 2:12

I'm gonna say shooter, shooter.

Jason Clymo 2:14

You would be wrong.

Dinesh Palipana 2:15

Damn.

Stephanie Dower 2:16

Steph... adventure?

Jason Clymo 2:17

Yeah! Yeah, you'd be correct. Yes. Adventure is the leading genre and all console gaming, including front runners like Zelda, Tears of the Kingdom, and God of War Ragnarok.

Stephanie Dower 2:29

Yeah... I feel like a lot of those would be crossovers as well, like shooter adventure, like...

Jason Clymo 2:34

I don't think Zelda shoots, I think she just swings the sword and plays a fluid or something. I'm not really sure, though.

Stephanie Dower 2:38

Clearly I'm not a gamer.

Jason Clymo 2:39

I'm more of a Pokemon, not a Zelda, but yeah.

Stephanie Dower 2:42

Yeah, fair, fair.

Jason Clymo 2:43

Okay. Question two: what percentage of disabled characters in Australian TV drama are in either Neighbours or Home and Away? A, 23%... B, 77%... or C, 55%?

Dinesh Palipana 2:58

Dinesh... Did you say 23%? Was that the first?

Jason Clymo 3:01

That was A.

Dinesh Palipana 3:02

kay, that's A, I'm gonna go with A.

Jason Clymo 3:04

Incorrect.

Stephanie Dower 3:05

What?

Rita Havea 3:06

Rita... I'm gonna go B.

Jason Clymo 3:08

77%?

Rita Havea 3:10

I just randomly...

Jason Clymo 3:11

You're correct! (ALL LAUGH)

Stephanie Dower 3:13

Really, 77%?

Jason Clymo 3:14

I mean, I don't know if there's that many dramas in Australia. That's what I was waiting for someone to make a comment that like...

Stephanie Dower 3:19

I mean, I wouldn't... I'm trying to, I'm thinking of Home and Away,Neighbours and I can only think of like one character...

Rita Havea 3:26

I know, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 3:27

There's definitely more.

Jason Clymo 3:28

Well, our statistician says that that makes up 77% - which might just be...

Stephanie Dower 3:33

It's depressing....

Jason Clymo 3:34

... a wider commentary on how much representation we actually have.

Stephanie Dower 3:38

Yeah. Okay, interesting. That's a... Yeah. Good to know. Good to know. Okay.

Jason Clymo 3:42

Yeah... Question three - love this: How many spinoff television programs exist in the Real Housewives extended universe?

Stephanie Dower 3:51

Do I care?

Dinesh Palipana 3:51

Oh, my God.

Jason Clymo 3:52

A, 27... B, 24... or C, 45?

Rita Havea 3:58

Rita.

Jason Clymo 3:58

Rita...

Rita Havea 3:59

A.

Jason Clymo 4:01

Nailed it Rita! (CHEERS, LAUGHTER) 27, so there's two Australian series, The Real Housewives of Melbourne and the Real Housewives of Sydney. Steph, you don't sound like you're a Real Housewives fan...

Stephanie Dower 4:11

I'm not, I'm sorry, I that's not my genre of TV. I... that, you know, some people find guilty pleasure in it and like, you know, it makes them feel better about themselves. I just kind of hate the world when I watch people like that. (LAUGHTER) I just wanna like...

Jason Clymo 4:23

So, like the skit, I'd planned to throw, like, a glass of wine on you later. Should we cut that, guys?

Stephanie Dower 4:27

I mean, like, I'll take the wine. Can I just drink it instead? (LAUGHTER)

Jason Clymo 4:30

It's mouth open. (LAUGHTER)

Stephanie Dower 4:31

Yeah, just put a straw in it for me, that'd be great. Yeah.

Rita Havea 4:34

No, I consume reality TV. Yeah, it's my... meditation.

Jason Clymo 4:40

Honestly!

Stephanie Dower 4:40

It... absolutely, there's a place for it, yeah.

Rita Havea 4:42

That's exactly right, it's super cathartic.

Dinesh Palipana 4:45

We don't need to watch that when we live in the Gold Coast. (LAUGHTER)

Stephanie Dower 4:47

Yeah, right, yeah, we...

Jason Clymo 4:49

It's your everyday life. Everyday life...

Stephanie Dower 4:51

It's nice to have another Queenslander on the table.

Jason Clymo 4:54

Why isn't there a Gold Coast?

Stephanie Dower 4:56

I feel like that would be next on the... actually, you know, Gold Coast, might be too outrageous for it.

Jason Clymo 5:00

Yeah, like, Gold Coast just has, like, the young trashy ones.

Stephanie Dower 5:04

Yeah, it's kind of... you're the trashy or you're beach bum. Like, there's, like, not much in between now.

Jason Clymo 5:08

So which one are you? (LAUGHTER) 

(MUSIC STING)

Now it is time for Show and Talk, where two wonderful guests have each brought in a piece of media for us to review the disability representation within it. So we will look at the casting, we will look at the story arc. We will look at if there were any disabled people behind the camera to steer this piece of media to be more inclusive or not. So let's check out our first clip. 

(MUSIC STING)

(media clip) 5:37

(Female:) The story starts with him - me, and him. He was... delightful. (Male:) You want to drink? (Female) I told him No. (Male:) Why not? (Female:) Excuse me. (Male:) What? (Female:)Because I know what will happen. (Male:) We can do something special (Female:) Real rights, real choices. (Male:) 100,000 people refused it, and fought for rights! (CHEER) (Female:) Whatever it took, we were gonna win. 

(MUSIC STING)

Stephanie Dower 6:04

Amazing...yeah. I know, right, yeah? I think a theme of this whole series is going to be how much better the UK is doing disability representation than Australia and other parts of the world.

Rita Havea 6:16

Yeah, absolutely.

Stephanie Dower 6:16

So Rita, I believe, did you...

Rita Havea 6:18

Yeah... and the reason I love Then Barbara Met Alan is that... the majority of the cast are disabled - and it's based on a true story of Barbara and Alan, and they were... had a huge impact in the movement of disability rights in the 1990s. And... it was just inspiring to watch and just see that representation, see that visibility... and it's one of my favourite movies.

Stephanie Dower 6:47

Yeah, it's just so refreshing to see that story, you know, and those characters, like just seeing that clip, and bits and pieces that I have seen, it's just, you can tell immediately that it's from an authentic, authentic place.

Rita Havea 7:02

Absolutely, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 7:03

It doesn't feel forced. It doesn't feel like put on. Yeah, no, amazing representation, yeah.

Jason Clymo 7:09

I was exactly the same. I feel like you can tell immediately what we can probably, as people with lived experience, we can tell immediately when we watch something that has a character with disability, if they aren't genuinely cast. That's really obvious a lot of the time. But also, if there's no one behind the scenes kind of steering the story in an inclusive and genuine way, because things just inevitably go wrong or feel off or feel fake, yeah, I almost like... sometimes I think about it like, as if it's like a stock photo, like, you know, when you look at it and you're like, it's just too, like, boxy or glossy, yeah, whatever.

Rita Havea 7:42

No, this film is not that, yeah. It represents so many people in it. And as you said, Steph, it's very refreshing to watch.

Stephanie Dower 7:51

I think it shows that, you know, the reaction, the gut reaction we have just seeing snippets of something like that, like just shows we do need, you know, more representation out there. Because...

Rita Havea 8:02

100% - we're not really seeing it.

Stephanie Dower 8:04

No, I always see stuff like that and I'm like, Is this what, like, non-disabled people feel all the time, like when they watch anything on TV or in the film? Yeah, yeah.

Rita Havea 8:13

It's truly an inspiring movie.

Stephanie Dower 8:15

Yeah, yeah. And an important piece of history, I think.

Rita Havea 8:18

Absolutely.

Stephanie Dower 8:18

If it's a true story.

Rita Havea 8:19

They were part of a huge movement. Yeah, and they created the movement. They literally did it themselves. With everyone supporting them.

Stephanie Dower 8:25

Amazing, heroes.

Rita Havea 8:27

Exactly.

Stephanie Dower 8:28

I love it.

Jason Clymo 8:29

Amazing. It also looks like, like there's plenty of kind of, like complexity to the characters as well.

Rita Havea 8:34

Absolutely, super talented as well. It's a really good cast

Jason Clymo 8:37

Like, romantic storylines it looked like, as well as... in the classic tropes of people, yeah, they fall into is like 2D Yeah, like two dimensional characters with not much complexity... or over medicalising, or kind of... either fetishising or over medicalising or infantilising - like, they're all the classics, but...

Rita Havea 8:57

And there's... I don't know if we can say it here, but... there's a sex scene, yeah? And it, it is so beautifully done, yeah? And, yeah, it was just, it was nice to see, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 9:10

Amazing.

Dinesh Palipana 9:11

which is just reality, right? Like, this is the actual world.

Stephanie Dower 9:13

Yeah, exactly.

Dinesh Palipana 9:14

One in six people globally, yeah. And this is, this is an accurate representation of the world, that we live in.

Stephanie Dower 9:22

Yeah. That's it. We just don't see it on our screens.

Jason Clymo 9:24

Yeah. In fact, we've said this before in a previous episode, where it's like, you know, if you're not representing disability, it's actually not accurate representation of society.

Rita Havea 9:33

That's exactly right, yeah.

Dinesh Palipana 9:34

And I like what you said about the tropes. You know, I love the James Bond movies... but if you go to the older Bond movies, yeah, they cross a lot of lines,

Jason Clymo 9:47

Even probably some of the newer ones, to be honest...

Stephanie Dower 9:49

They kind of keep making the same things, yeah, but yeah...

Dinesh Palipana 9:54

You know, the bad guy used a wheelchair, right?

Unknown Speaker 9:55

Yeah. It's always the villains... always the villains.

Stephanie Dower 9:59

I swear we. Nice people on occasion, like we're not all villains.

Jason Clymo 10:03

I mean, we can be arseholes.

Stephanie Dower 10:04

We can be, because we're complex human people.

Jason Clymo 10:07

Yes!

Stephanie Dower 10:08

Shocking, shocking.

Jason Clymo 10:09

Exactly. Wow. We'll give our IDR scores for Then Barbara Met Alan in a minute. But first, let's check out the piece of media that Dinesh has brought in. Let's roll the clip. 

(MUSIC STING)

(media clip) 10:19

(Male:) Still, none of that matters when you get to change someone's life forever. (LONG PAUSE, MUSIC) (Male:) What'd he say? (Male:) He said, No thank you. (PAUSE) (Male:) No father would deny his son the chance to hear, so we knew it had to be a misunderstanding. We told the janitor to clear things up. (Male:)You know, if we learned sign language, we could talk in the movies without Carly yelling at us. (Male:) But it's so dark, how could we see what we're signing? (Male:) We get special glow in the dark signing gloves. (Male:) Yeah, but then the popcorn butter would get all over the gloves. (Male:) Why do you keep poking holes in this? We'd cut off the fingertips. Okay, I'm in. 

(MUSIC) (Male:) Well, I told him everything we said, his kid's the perfect age for the procedure, his insurance will cover it, and he's still not interested. (MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 11:11

All right. Love it. Dinesh, you brought this one in - it's Scrubs. Do you want to tell us a little bit about it?

Dinesh Palipana 11:17

Well, I mean, Scrubs is something that's close to my heart, because one of my best friends and I, we started medical school together, and we lived together, and we were very much like Turk and JD in Scrubs. So yeah, but there's a lot of parallel between what they demonstrate on the show and the healthcare system. And I think what's depicted is someone making a judgment about what a parent wants and what it's like to be deaf... and then in this episode, they also circumvent the father, and in the end, they don't realise that it's one connection that the father had with the son... and there's so much to unpack there, I think.

Stephanie Dower 12:03

There is a lot in this episode to unpack - like, as I was saying before, I love Scrubs, like, I think, very smart writing and that. But unfortunately, like, you can tell from this episode that I don't know what sort of consultation, or, you know, people working behind the scenes as writers or whatever, might have had that lived experience, you know, of deafness, because, yeah, to circumvent a father's rights to deny his, you know, like they just can't understand that...

Jason Clymo 12:36

Like, I would just argue the opposite - like, I would almost argue that, like, maybe there was someone involved, because that would be such, like a real experience.

Stephanie Dower 12:42

Maybe... well, that's actually a very good point. It would be a real... this is where I get worried about certain representation, and like our audiences, I hope they're smart enough to understand, yeah, like, what that like? It's sort of holding up a mirror kind of thing...

Jason Clymo 12:52

To society.

Stephanie Dower 12:58

To society, yeah. But if you don't understand that, then this is just perpetuating what society is always thinking of, what it means to be deaf. And you know that it's something to be you know, if you have the chance to have a cochlear implant, then would you not want that kind of thing?

Jason Clymo 13:14

But yeah, the whole homogenisation, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 13:17

We actually spoke about this on another episode, yeah, around like deaf culture. And you know how that, you know, just understanding that it's so complex, and, you know, you know, it has its own, you know...

Jason Clymo 13:29

Cultural language.

Stephanie Dower 13:30

Cultural language Exactly, yeah.

Jason Clymo 13:31

Tied into identity.

Stephanie Dower 13:32

That's right, yeah. So anyway, very... eah, lots to unpack, yeah.

Speaker 2 13:37

But, but you think it's a risk to depict. I think they got there at the end. Yeah, where they where they explored the father's point of view.

Stephanie Dower 13:46

Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, that's a good point actually.

Jason Clymo 13:48

I think that's the most important thing, right? Like, when there's these kinds of real depictions, it's like, it's good to hold up the mirror, but then it's probably making sure that you then have that, like, story centralised on the person with the lived experience, and it's like, shown in the way that would really reflect that person's lived experience in the real world.

Stephanie Dower 14:07

I guess, also, like, from your experience working in the healthcare industry, like, yeah, yeah. So in terms of, like, being able to, like, communicate and translate, you know, with, you know, people who are signing or other languages, like, how does that fly with this?

Speaker 2 14:22

Well, and this happens, right? So if I wanted someone who can sign at work one day, not really sure where I turn to, because we have difficulties finding people sometimes who can speak a particular language as it is, yeah. So when you add signing to this to this equation, it can we safely communicate with the patient. And this became especially important during COVID - you know, everyone was wearing masks. Some people rely on lip reading. So... how does that work? But in healthcare, too, I really think the media is such an important... medium, because it's what we all connect with. It's what we all see. 

And some of these things are reflected back in the way we do things in society, absolutely. And I think healthcare is one of them. So when we have movies like Me Before You, and then we have access to voluntary assisted dying, the moment... so I do some work in a hospital where I see it all the time. So what are the pitfalls for someone with a spinal cord injury going through this? So I think there's a lot of things that we see in the media that can be reflected back into society and how we think. So I thought this was a really important episode. 

(MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 15:45

Now it is time to check out an ad that none of us have seen before. It's got to be a bit of a surprise for our Ads Askew segment - and as the name suggests, we watch, we dissect, we work out if the ad has gone a bit askew in the way that they've delivered their disability representation, or if they nailed it. 

(MUSIC STING)

(ad clip) 16:06

(Female:) Hey, bartender, you assume that I cannot drink a Margarita, so you don't serve me a Margarita. I don't drink a Margarita - your assumption becomes reality. And parents, you assume that I cannot live on my own, so you don't encourage me to live on my own, so I don't live on my own. Coach, you assume that I cannot hit harder, so you don't train me and hit harder, so I don't hit harder. And teacher, you assume that I cannot learn Shakespeare, so you don't teach me Shakespeare. (Male:) Old MacDonald had a farm... (Rita:) Oh, my God. 

(Female:) So I don't learn Shakespeare. (sings) E-I-E-I-O. (Speaks) But hey, if all your assumptions become reality, then assume that I can drink a Margarita. So you serve Me a Margarita. So I drink a Margarita. Assume that I can live on my own. So I live on my own. Assume that I can hit harder. So I hit harder. Assume that I can learn Shakespeare. What fools these mortals be! I learned fucking Shakespeare. (Jason laughs) You assume it kind of square, right? Assume that I can do that job, that I can go to parties, that I can have sex, that I can be on stage. Assume that I can. So maybe I will. (MUSIC) 

(MUSIC STING)

Jason Clymo 16:42

I fuckin' love that.

Stephanie Dower 17:31

Yes - that to me, what that to me, is like the perfect ad. I never, I remember when that came out. It was only last year, I think, and I just had this, like, visual, visceral reaction to it. It was so it just sums up everything that I want to do with, like, my work and, like, film and TV and media. Yeah. Perfect ad for me. Anyone else, sort of...

Jason Clymo 17:56

This is my thing - like, that's how you get on the soapbox and, like, tell...

Stephanie Dower 17:59

It's empowering...

Jason Clymo 18:00

The way it fucking is, and tell people that change needs to happen.

Stephanie Dower 18:03

Absolutely. It's empowering, it's also, like, really engaging to watch if you're... not from a disabled background, like you still going Like, damn, that's cool.

Jason Clymo 18:14

The production of that was like, so good.

Rita Havea 18:16

Super powerful. Super powerful. And it gives insight to people watching it as well, yeah, that are non-disabled, and... has a great message.

Dinesh Palipana 18:26

Yeah, because, I mean, we do make assumptions, right, like we fail kids from the start. (Others: Hmm, yeah, yeah) Fail kids from the start. We they struggle to get access in schooling, to high schools, to universities, to work. So I think these challenges, all those assumptions, yeah, yeah, put someone at the centre of it. I think it's... awesome.

Stephanie Dower 18:47

Yeah. That's the way that, like, you know, sort of, it's like holding a mirror up to society, but strongly calling it out, kind of thing, you know? having

Jason Clymo 18:57

Yeah. Like, having one very clear message of like, This is what you can change.

Stephanie Dower 19:01

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Call to action was very strong, you know, Assume that I will, and maybe, you know, assume that I can, and maybe I will.

Jason Clymo 19:07

Exactly. I love that it was like, it didn't fall into, because it could have been easy to write, like, to fall into a messaging that was a little bit inspo-porn, (Yeah, yeah) anything, yeah. You just believe in me.

Stephanie Dower 19:21

But just the whole, like, it really, like, you know, yeah, just encapsulates the whole, like, infantilisation of people with disabilities. And, you know, just the I remember when I first learned the term the social prejudice of low expectations, yeah, because, like, you know, we talk about discrimination, all that kind of thing. And like, for me, like, I've never felt like overt discrimination a lot, but the social prejudice of low expectations feel all the time like, you know, and it's it, when I heard that, I was like, that's exactly what it is, you know. I've been trying to figure it out. But, yeah, so... A-plus ad for me.

Jason Clymo 20:00

Rita, do you think it's Askew, or do you think it's Nailed it?

Rita Havea 20:03

Nailed it, bigtime.

Jason Clymo 20:05

Yeah, great. I think we're all in agreeance. , yeah, yeah, that ad was not askew. (All agree)

Stephanie Dower 20:10

Everyone should...

Jason Clymo 20:11

Exactly.

Dinesh Palipana 20:12

Let's see more stuff like that.

Jason Clymo 20:13

I just want to see that character evolved into, like, a whole series.

Stephanie Dower 20:16

Also, that actress, she was in Champions that we spoke about in another episode. (Yes!) So she is going gangbusters. Yeah, she's amazing, amazing. Some might say slaying.

Jason Clymo 20:27

Slay the day. (MUSIC STING) Now I think it's time to almost wrap things up. But before we do go, we want to hear from everyone on the panel, myself included. Some speedy little suggestions for people at home, things that they could watch, things that they could learn. Maybe it's like an artist they could listen to, that might have some lived experience of disability... Rita?

Rita Havea 20:50

The TV series You Can't Ask That. (Yeah, great.) I think that covers so many topics, and it allows people to ask those questions that most people are wanting to know. And it's just... positive in terms of disability.

Stephanie Dower 21:11

Yeah, yeah. I think it's it's also the most simple concept of a show ever. It's literally impactful, so effective - I think what I love most about it is it's also like, obviously, other people have sent in the questions, but it's the individuals that are answering them, reading the questions.

Rita Havea 21:28

That's right, yeah.

Stephanie Dower 21:29

So it's kind of taking that power back aswell, yeah.

Rita Havea 21:29

Yeah, and then breaking stereotypes as well, and answering those questions (For sure, yeah.) So that's something positive for me in the media.

Stephanie Dower 21:38

I love that.

Jason Clymo 21:39

Dinesh?

Speaker 2 21:40

I would love to get to a day where we don't need to have these conversations, where the four of us don't need to be here. We

Stephanie Dower 21:47

always say we're trying to do ourselves out of jobs here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 21:52

And I think the biggest part for me is just understanding that we're human beings. We're human beings, that we're part of the fabric of this society, and that we should just see each other as people and be kind. And I think in this world today, we need kindness more than ever towards each other and understanding, because we're also a world so divided (Mm, yeah, for sure.) So I would just encourage us see each other as human beings, see beyond things like colour and disability and things like that. 

I grew up in a country that was divided by ethnicity and politics. People killed each other, and I've seen the worst of what this looks like, so I would just love for us to be kind to each other, to be human to each other, and just to understand each other.

Stephanie Dower 22:46

A very, very great message, yeah.

Jason Clymo 22:50

Absolutely... well, mine, suggestion, is going to be to go check out Dinesh's book before it gets turned into a movie.

Rita Havea 23:00

Absolutely, I would love that.

Stephanie Dower 23:02

That's exciting. That's exciting. My little space suggestion is actually documentary on Netflix called Crip Camp (Yes, yeah.) You know, following in the vein of then Barbara Met Alan... really great story, great piece of disability history that I myself, you know, knew little bits of, but wasn't fully, fully aware of the whole story. And again, you know, spearheaded by filmmakers with lived experience of disability as well. Yeah? So really, really great documentary, yeah.

Dinesh Palipana 23:34

In fact, that's such, like, the interesting part about watching some of those things, like, we have this, like, base level of understanding of our history, and you're like, wow, yeah, it's super, it's that was the, like, significant challenge that was, like, faced by them.

Stephanie Dower 23:49

That's it. But it also, really, I, what I love about Crip Camp is, when they were in the sort of heat of, like, their the protest period, people or groups from like other factions also came to their, you know, be allies with them exactly so, like the Black Panthers and people like that, you know, came to support them because they're like, you're fighting for the same thing that we're fighting for. So, you know, I was like, Oh my gosh, this is, yeah, amazing, yeah.

Jason Clymo 24:16

Before we do finally say goodbye... Rita can you just let everyone know where they can follow you, or work with you?

Rita Havea 24:24

Yeah, you can find me on my instagram, which is, I am Rita H.

Jason Clymo 24:30

Amazing. And if we want to book you as a model, where do we go?

Rita Havea 24:33

You can go on there, and also via my agent, Silver Fox Management, beautiful, amazing,

Jason Clymo 24:39

Beautiful, awesome. Dinesh?

Dinesh Palipana 24:40

Instagram. It's just Dinesh Palipana, LinkedIn, yep, Only Fans now, yeah, once, once, yeah, (Yeah...) you know, so look me up. Always, always love to chat.

Jason Clymo 24:57

Yeah, awesome. Well. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you everybody for watching along at home. If you want to engage with us, check us out on our social media pages. You can let us know what your IDR scores would be, what you thought about, you know, the information we shared today... or even throw us a suggestion for a future episode of what we could review. But otherwise, that's been this week's episode of Reframed, and we'll see you next time. 

(MUSIC OUT)