Carson Tueller: 'A Quiet Place 2'

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coming up on reframed and along with us this week is our special guest carson twala all the way

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from the us which is very exciting and today together we'll be discussing the

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film a quiet place too yeah okay i came with my most

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discerning uh you know like intention to really pick

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this apart i have to say uh it holds up pretty well the same as me like it's not like we

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became disabled and we're just like perfect advocates and like inclusive experts from day one that was really

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nice to sort of show an able-bodied audience that actually you can meet us in the middle like we

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don't have to always be the ones accommodating to fit into your world you can actually make some accommodations to

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let us fit into your world [Music]

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welcome back to reframed the podcast that reframes how disability is portrayed in film and tv

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i'm your host jason and today i have my lovely co-host stephanie dower and along with us this week is our

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special guest carson tweller all the way from the us which is very exciting and today together we'll be discussing the

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film a quiet place two but before we do let's say hello to carson and learn a

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bit more about him so welcome to the podcast carson did you just want to start off by letting everyone know a bit

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about you and what you do yeah yeah so i'm carson tuller like you

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said and i'm a personal and professional development coach a disability advocate

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and a professional speaker i am currently living in utah in salt

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lake city just moved from new york um and i'm just excited to be with you

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today you just said one of my favorite places new york city so i'm jealous that you got to live there um

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i've been you know doing my background digging on you of course um and one thing

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i guess one thing i i saw that you obviously share a lot of yourself on social media and and have made quite a

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following out of that you know obviously you went through you have a spinal cord injury you went

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through that transition process how i guess my question is how did you

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how did sharing your story on social media really influenced your your journey with

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through that period i think it's had a massive influence on my journey uh with spinal cord injury i

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kind of inadvertently um amassed the following i guess i just

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start so when i was injured in 2013

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i had a friend who started a blog and the idea was that the blog would offload some of the pressure that my family was

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feeling to keep my loved ones updated my community my family my friends all of that i

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thought i would give somewhat of an update of how things are going in the hospital

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so he would update this blog say this is how carson's doing through his recovery um and

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you know so he was just updating things so eventually um i said i'd love to write something and so i kind of took

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the blog over and started writing things and writing about grief

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at the time and lost because i was just experiencing a big transition

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and that slowly transformed into me starting to ask more questions about disability and then write about that and

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i really kind of journaled my unlearning process and my relearning process about

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what it means to have a disability because i was an able-bodied person before and i

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had all sorts of biases and internalized ableism and

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i just kind of blocked it every bit of the way and then i switched over it was like a blog spot thing and then i

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switched over to instagram and started doing uh

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blog-esque posts there and that's when it kind of started so i

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just kept going but i mean if you look back on my posts you

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you can see the slow transformation like i'm pretty sure i have a post where i refer to myself as differently abled

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and i even like make you can make like an argument about why it's more accurate

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or something right in my attempts to kind of like cling to ability right

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um and so anyway it's been very interesting and um people have been really generous to

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allow me to grow not allow me but stay with me as i've grown and learn things and

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and so yeah it's been it's been a key part of my journey i guess and i think that's like

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one of the coolest parts about your social media is that you haven't tried to like filter it all too much like

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it just is where you are at that moment in time if that made any sense at all like you just like you just

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share like real moments of like today was because of xyz and then you know and like you said like

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i don't even know if you've removed that post if we went and looked for it probably still there where you've said differently abled but you always talk

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about the fact that you've not like you're the same as me like it's not like we became disabled and we're just like

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perfect advocates and like inclusive experts from day one it's like we used all the language for a

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really long time and we tried to cling to ability and like cures and all that kind of crap for so long because it was

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like one that's what society had like told us to do essentially

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but two is just like that was the real experience and i like that you shared that real experience because i think it

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also provides space for non-disabled people to be like ah like he's grown obviously you've gone

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through the actual lived experience and grown with that but i think it also shows non-disabled people that they can

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then learn from that and grow themselves too anyway i think social media is a super powerful tool for disabled people

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right now but i don't know if you wanted to just give your own kind of perspective on it because it is

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a bit of i guess an important part of your life yeah yeah i i totally agree with you um

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i think that the uh kind of disability

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justice or disability equality movement um has some really interesting dynamics

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to it that just aren't a part of any other marginalized group right we

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um [Music] being able to physically gather to protest is

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a privilege and it's a privilege that a lot of uh disabled people don't have

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because we can't take it to the streets in the same way now people have in the past right and

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we've we've heard about like amazing people who at the beginning of the civil rights journey for a disability did take

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it to the streets and did some incredible things but generally speaking some like half of us are dealing with

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um much fewer resources both both financially but then also energy

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resources it takes energy to get out of the house and to go and and then if you're gonna go somewhere to fight for

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your rights you have to have transportation and transportation so uh i mean in new york you know 20 of

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the subways are accessible and the other 80 percent are not so the reason i say all of that is

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because fighting for one civil rights has

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historically been this like physical time space experience and

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that's a huge privilege we don't talk about and disabled people have

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had to find a way to creatively fight for their rights with half the

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resources without any of the access and all of those barriers right so social media is so wonderful because

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for many of us it's far more accessible than the physical world social media still is not totally

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accessible in a lot of ways it's important to acknowledge that

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but it is so much more inclusive and i think

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accessible for people like us to be able to get together and raise our voices and

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get some visibility that i think is pretty unprecedented i think actually in

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just history so it's why i think that we're i think that we're gaining some traction

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and visibility and a voice in a way that i don't know if we've had before that's exactly i know from my own

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experience i'm through social media and connecting with other people with shared experience with

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disability that i've never had access to before so it's kind of giving me that

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representation that i i crave growing up that we didn't have um i guess you know

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that's kind of for me my representation is so important i can see what other people are doing understand that i'm not the only one going through what i'm

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going through um what is it to you what does representation mean to you

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uh i i think my answer is pretty uncreative it's just like

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being able to like you know when you think of a representative you think of someone who appears

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someone who is visible who stands for people like them right or

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people who think like them or or whatever there it is that they're representing so

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for me representation is um really about kind of like validating

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the human experience when we're talking about it in terms of social justice or marginalization representation is about

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portraying reality the way things actually are like

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a fifth of the world's population has a disability and we should see that represented in

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reality when we look at media or television right we want it to actually like represent

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what's happening in the actual world so that we have the experience of being seen

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and have the experience that our lives do matter and our stories matter as part

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of the mosaic of the human story you you know without representation you just are erasing characters left and right that's

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you know it's just there's your story disappears

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yeah which then like obviously erases like real people's experience experiences in the real world as well

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which is yeah yeah i would like to like talk about like the flow and effect i

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guess of representation as well in the real world of like being hired in a job or being offered

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like the flexibility that you need to actually perform a job because people have a greater level of understanding or

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just a greater level of inclusion and compassion or sympathy or empathy or whatever they

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need to have in order to just be a better person and be more inclusive so

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i love that is there anything else that you want the people watching along uh or listening

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along to this episode to know about you or about your thoughts on representation

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inclusion that's a big question yeah um

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i think i just want to invite any listener to um get an education on what disability

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is and isn't from disabled people um and start to

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[Music] get an education in anti-ableism work um because i really deeply believe that

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ableism is um this insidious force that

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um is so woven into the fabric of economy and the human i mean obviously the human

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body but it affects all of us our standard of work of

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um what it means to be like a valuable human being is so much attached to what kind of

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body you have and if that body can work eight hours a day you know five days a week 40 hours a

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week whatever so you can make money right it just it all comes back to like worth and function and um

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i think we all win when we can kind of start to

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separate those things or at least become aware of them like how does ableism affect all of

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us abled and disabled alike and of course disabled much much more but

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it's like that like really simple like this is probably like the most simple like

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explanation or example i can give of that which is like how ramps don't just

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like provide accessible like or accessibility to people who are wheelchair users like it's like people

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who use prams are going to appreciate rams great like that is just probably like the most simple smallest way to give an example

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of what you're talking about i think so yeah yeah it's like it will just benefit everyone

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and like in terms of economy and stuff we've spoken about um with past guests about like the impact that can have on

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the economy as well and on welfare and the demand on welfare and things like that when we actually create

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truly inclusive societies which will take a while but let's like you said all start engaging in that

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anti-ableism work so that we can actually start making some proper goals sticking to them and getting towards

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that end goal anyway rant over let's also now just give the opportunity yeah

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give people the opportunity to follow along with you carson if they don't already um where would you like people

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to go if they want to engage with the work that you do with the life coaching stuff that you do and

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whether you want them to go and follow you on instagram whatever it is yeah yeah you can find me on yeah on

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instagram my name is carson underscore tuller like my name and my website is

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carsontuller.com and that's where you'll find all of the other work that i do in terms of speaking engagements or personal and

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professional development coaching all that kind of stuff that's where you can find me in your instagram buy you

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said that professor x is your idol please explain like i have a little professor x bobble

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head on my desk right here um i know

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lion gave you um so i i sometimes think about going back

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into my profile and like changing that um i do think that x-men does a pretty good

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job um at portraying professor x

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in a not in spell porn way there are some exceptions to that for sure especially

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in some of the most recent films um but i've been pretty pleased with it

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i especially related to him because there were a because he is

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ostensibly like a bridge builder right and he's like trying to do what he thinks is like the

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best thing for mutants and humans to co-exist um and i just didn't see a lot of

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like cartoons or characters that used wheelchairs much less that were like paralyzed who also

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didn't want to like end their lives

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well now i think it's time for us to jump into reviewing a quiet place part two

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steph can you just give us the obligatory little intro so a quiet place part two

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uh we return to the world of the abbott family um spoiler alerts at the end of

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the first film we sadly lose john krasinski's character the father

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and we are now dealing with the world without him there is a bit of a throwback at the beginning

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that we see sort of the world before these monsters arrived and then we come

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back to the present day where this family is needing to

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get to this place that they think will be safe from these monsters so they head

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out on this journey and it's of course um dealing with the world

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where these monsters react to sound so the family

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not only do they have um the daughter who is deaf and communicates with asl

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but obviously because the monsters respond to sound that is how they have to communicate in order to stay safe as

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well so yeah i mean it's very interesting the way they've

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incorporated this like um disability kind of narrative into

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this post-apocalyptic thriller kind of i don't know it really works well like i'm

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not one for you know usually when disability is in like a horror thriller kind of thing

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it's not it doesn't necessarily go down well as a representation but

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somehow it's usually the bad guy yeah some or you know like the disability is

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scary or something like that where is this like i i'm quite a fan but carson maybe

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you can kick us off first what are your thoughts on it yeah okay i came with my most

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discerning uh you know like intention to really pick

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this apart i have to say uh it holds up pretty well it holds it pretty well i do have some

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critiques i have some some feelings about but um [Music]

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in terms of like things that really work there i think there's a good amount

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um that works first they hired a disabled actor

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right so reagan was played by millie simmons and i did a little i wanted to make sure

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that we had all the names right so millie is deaf right the impact of that alone

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um it just makes a massive difference in the accuracy of the film right in the

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way that it's actually portrayed because you've got an individual with a life experience

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who um is also acting in many ways as a kind of like consultant throughout the

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film um but then there are also you know i'm just thinking about the kind of the practical

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what implications of having a disabled actor it means things have to be accessible on set it

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kind of forces an accessibility behind the scenes and it really creates a culture where

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this has to be inclusive if you're going to have disabled actors right and so i

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love that that is like the first thing that we look for i'm sure you talk about this all the time right and

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is the actor disabled and it's so great when they are right

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so that was my first like check literally the number one win yeah it's like the number one thing i feel like

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that we look at yeah absolutely i mean for me like it just made her character

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so three-dimensional like she wasn't this 2d version of what an

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able-bodied person thinks um is the exp what the experience of a deaf person is like you can tell there's

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just something innate in like we sense it that it is authentic it comes across

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so well one of my main things which i think also was in the first film quite well like

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they did this quite well in the first film as well was that it wasn't like this massive

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part of reagan's life if that makes sense like it's it's not like the whole like

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you know scenes with reagan don't just become like totally about her deafness ever like it's not just always like

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oh there's monsters coming but reagan's deaf like it's just like it just is like it's just part of her character which is

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also like you're saying like the three-dimensional and the real kind of representation of what it would be as a person who is deaf and i

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i love that so much because we so often get those really crappy representations where it's

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just like like something like me before you for example which we've also reviewed before where like his

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disability is just like everything all of the time and i'm like that's not

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always the case like for some people that might be the case for them but you know for the majority of the disabled

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people i know that's not how their life works so you know i love that

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you know they had bigger things to worry about right they had aliens to worry about so it was kind of like and i also loved that like she could be

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the hero without being in this like inspo porny way like they

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just navigated that really well to have like her disability to be tied in with you know her being the hero without it

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being like she's overcome her disability like there wasn't really every moment where i thought

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oh they've like added in some like super special power where she can like

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sense the monsters or something or like they didn't do anything gross as well where she was like she felt like she

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related to the monsters wish because she was different too like i hate that narrative as well which we spoke about

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last week as well so yeah i just i actually really loved the way that they actually structured the character

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and the narrative around the character in this one i think it was interesting that they

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her disability or you know her her being deaf there was like the the advantages

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and also the disadvantages showing like you know the advantage was she was able

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to communicate in obviously a silent way they already had that built into their family unit and she was able to sort of

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use use that to her strength and she was able to use her her hearing aid to you

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know ward off the monsters like they found that kind of way but then it also showed her vulnerability

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as a character when she didn't have that hearing aid like removing that made her more susceptible if she couldn't hear

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someone yelling out run or something like that so for me that is a very true representation of

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disability there are there absolutely can be disadvantages but there can be advantages as well so it's important to

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show both sides of that spectrum and it's just about the way you fragment as well like absolutely i don't feel

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like there was ever a character who like pitied her because she was deaf which

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was amazing like even emmet when they were like having in this like second film there's like moments

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where there's like communication breakdown almost between um reagan and emmett when it's just the

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two of them on their merry journey but there's never any like

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like it's almost like emmett takes responsibility too for the communication breakdown it's not like he

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doesn't get like really frustrated with her and he doesn't also like pity her for being deaf i don't think like it really

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is portrayed as a strength like being able to communicate with asl so which i think in the real world would be too so can i

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say it was really nice to see a moment where the effort that has to be made in order

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to communicate didn't solely fall onto the person that has the disability at

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that point um where she tells him like you have to enunciate you have to like i can't you know you

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have to do you have to put some of the effort in that was really nice to sort of show an able-bodied audience that

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actually you can meet us in the middle like we don't have to always be the ones accommodating to fit into your world you

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can actually make some accommodations to let us fit into your world i thought that was a really nice moment

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it's really important yeah yeah i um i really liked as well

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sorry i'm just like on this thing i liked as well like um when they were doing those flashbacks there was a

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moment it just ties into that whole like you know how reagan brought like a new strength into their family i guess but

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not in like an inspector anyway because that kind of sounded especially um like when they did the flashback there

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was a part where the brother i've gotten his name was like playing baseball and then from afar the mum's actually able

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to communicate to him and like help him feel a bit more calm through asl and i really liked that as well it's just like

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these moments that are just like throughout that for some people they'd be over the top of their heads but i think

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you know when you're a person with disability you don't see those types of representations very often you're like

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this is amazing like it's just just so seamlessly throughout

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but yeah yeah i think we can talk about carson i think you had some critiques

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yeah i want to hear critics oh well you know but um the only thing i thought

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was that occasionally well let me think

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about this so at the end of the day her

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disability is it's not a superpower right but it is like a key to

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winning the game right and so the only thing that i ever i mean

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i'm just like flagging it i don't even know if it actually falls into the uh problematic category but i thought

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okay you know sometimes people or or the media will demonstrate a

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disability as being a superpower because it almost justifies

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the presence of the disability right so like it compensates for it so that it's like

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a strength and not a weakness right but it's like oh look this

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particular um you know attribute actually is what saved the day and i think sometimes that

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points to compensating for something does that make sense it would also be nice to just have a

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horror film that's similar to this where there's someone who's deaf or disabled

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and like it's not doesn't make them the hero like they just are the character they might die

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three-quarters of the way through i don't care but like they just are a disabled character going through the narrative yeah i thought okay

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what if reagan that you know the deaf character had solved the issue or had you know

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found a way to like beat the aliens that had nothing to do with her being disabled right and it was just like her

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sheer skill or wit or courage or something like that i think we do see

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all of those things i actually think she's a pretty complex character in terms of she's like a broody teenager

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sometimes and she's also a little bit um you know risk-taking or maybe a little

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rash maybe a little frustrated with her parents right so we see like all of these other complex things that

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have us like her um or even maybe judge her right as like a broody little teenager but

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i think that's why she comes across not as like inspiration porn because we get to see okay this is

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really about her it's not really about the disability but i thought you know it would be like

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even more anti-ableist to like have her just

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kick ass because she is of herself a kick-ass human being right

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yeah yeah so that was one thing that i was yeah what you mean and it's almost like you know if the

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cochlear implant and the like distortion noise is wasn't the only thing that killed the

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monsters would they have even included a deaf character in it and then we would have had no disability representation

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it's almost like i get where you're going with it like it's like it's not like the end product of probably what

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we're looking for it's like really good but it's like possibly like a stepping stone towards

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what we would be like hell yeah this is an awesome inclusive movie yeah yeah

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it's a it's a plot tool it's it would be like if i was the movie and my wheelchair was the thing that won the

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day you know like saved the day but it wasn't me like i i think that's so true

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it's a good point to make like people with disabilities who use mobility aids or accessibility aids

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whatever you want to call them like we're when we're people we're more than the aids that we use in our lives we're

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more than wheelchair hearing aids um we need to see those people first so yes i i agree it would have been not

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like it was it was an easy plot tool to use yeah yeah and because they've done like such

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an amazing job as well like i didn't even really think about it as a plot tool which is like probably why i'm like

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this is still a very good film but when you look at it it actually is like disability still is a bit of a plot tool

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in this oh yeah right yeah yeah and i guess like the other thing the

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only other critique that i had of the film was and this is literally of every film i know

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we've spoken about it before is more incidental disability like i i i

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could be wrong i may have missed it but you know in all of the even like looking back the flashback scene

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i don't believe we saw anyone in a wheelchair necessarily or

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any other sort of visible disabilities out in the community which i'm assuming

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they probably would have been if that was reflective of society but it just would have been nice just to throw some

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other stuff in there just to make it more well-rounded you know uh experience i guess of

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disability but that's yeah a very small critique that i think

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is of every film pretty much ever made um but we'd like to see a small critique

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but it's like like it might be a small critique but it's like a very important factor because it's like almost that

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subliminal messaging because if there were like a couple more disabled people and maybe they are physically disabled to like really represent that in those

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flashback scenes and like it might just be like a dude in a way it's like pick me it'll be a dude

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in a wheelchair i'd be like flying all over the place because aliens like totally me up

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but like that helps to be like oh okay like that helps but the subliminal messaging

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behind that is that like there are disabled people in society like and there's not just one in the one town

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and i mean like probably i wouldn't have survived because i don't think i could have been that silent

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so maybe not in like the post-apocalyptic part but like

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during the actual flashback scenes i think they definitely could have been more inclusive i don't know about you

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carson carson's laughing at me a lot but there's no way in my wheelchair that i'm gonna give me i think

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if i did survive it's because like i don't move at night right like i could like sleep like a corpse because i

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don't move her like rustle around at night but oh yeah the minute it was like time to get a

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drink or like move my wheelchair would have just absolutely out of me it would have been a goner

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yeah so it's just hilarious to like right i love that that's out of me that is

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something that we were talking about before that is has nothing to do with disability but what if you like to sleep what if you

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snore like aren't you gonna wake the monsters how do you control what you do in your sleep and i was like how do they

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go to the toilet like so i reckon you could work around that but

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i don't know i mean these are questions john presents me could you like fill us in that would be great i

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want to know we'll ask him and just be like we've got questions

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i like how we've gone down the toilet when we're around now it's great i love it literally we've gotten to that point

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did you have any other critiques yeah yeah uh other critiques

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not i mean really not not too yeah that was really the only one no i'm glad to erase that because like i didn't

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even really think about it that way because i think they had done such a good job of building out the character

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and making them like so threatened three-dimensional and like the representation was good

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i actually didn't even think about the fact that it's like without this whole plot device which we've even actually

32:57

included a disabled person yeah yeah yeah because

33:03

because that's why the word justification right it's like is this what justifies the presence of a

33:09

disabled person is that they have some contribution that is quote unquote special

33:15

or unique that makes sense to have them in the film and

33:20

it kind of goes back to what stephanie was saying around like incidental presence of

33:26

disabled people and what i mean is i kind of think disabled people are

33:31

always seen as just these like just narratives or stories like who we

33:37

are is like a story and i think that that's reflected in the fact that people come up to us and they always say

33:42

what happened to you or why are you like this there's always some justification

33:48

or explanation for your existence right and so i think it would probably be slightly distracting to see

33:55

some people chilling in wheelchairs and you know because we think of or like

34:01

some kind of visible device because i think people think oh what happened it's a distraction it's like um there's

34:07

always some kind of a story rather than just a human being who gets around in this body and we all say though like on the

34:15

back of this and this is probably like also something that i really like about the two films is that they never really

34:21

divulge like why like they don't actually divulge like what happened to regan which is really good um

34:28

but again i think that's why i also didn't pick up that it is a bit of like a plot device still like it's very

34:34

interesting how they've like done almost like 95 of it all like so

34:40

amazingly um which is obviously really good and should be like celebrated on this podcast

34:49

so i think it's time to give our scores out of five on the inclusive disability representation scale for a quiet place

34:56

part two steph i'll get you to kick us off what was your score i mean i think my thoughts of the

35:04

character and the film have been pretty glowing have been pretty

35:09

well well taken um i'm gonna say 4.5 out of five um i yeah it takes a lot for me

35:17

to give it a five so um yeah just really i love the complexity of the

35:23

character i love that she doesn't have

35:28

like a superpower in herself i know we've talked about like the listening aid being like plot twit like a plot

35:34

tool but it's also not doing anything extraordinary it's not like she found like this secret

35:41

setting that she's never noticed before it's like it malfunctioned which happens

35:46

so um yeah like all of that stuff 4.5 out of 5 for me

35:52

love that carson okay so i think

35:58

in the context uh i'm trying to do two scores my official score is also a 4.5

36:06

although i do want to give like credit for the fact that i think that in the context of today's disa like films and

36:13

representation of disabled people it is like really really high up there it is like a

36:19

five-ish but in the grand scheme of like the representation where we just have

36:25

nothing to say i'd say it for pocket price

36:31

can i just say i love when we have a guest on stuff and it's like when i ask them for their scores it's like they're

36:36

like they're gonna get in trouble it's like the hardest decision

36:41

and i feel like the first couple of eps i was the same but now i'm like it's chill i can say a 4.5 and i'm exactly

36:47

the same it's a 4.5 and i love that i introduced the 0.5s into the score system everybody's going for them now

36:54

um i came in with a 4.5 as well um but probably more like a 4.75 but it was

36:59

only because i wanted more incidental representation of disability but now i really am glad that you brought up

37:05

carson like this is the whole point of this we're all learning here together that you have raised that it is actually

37:11

a plot device throughout the film uh the films both of them and

37:16

yeah i think that's important to highlight as well so it's a very solid 4.5 for me i think um

37:23

so that's our scores yay that is it for this week's episode and i'm so grateful that the two of you

37:29

joined me this week i have loved our conversations i loved our scores and the reasons behind them i love that i

37:35

learned something again from our guest i think that's awesome and i hope everyone who followed along uh who listened

37:42

watched whatever you did with this episode also learned something from one of us especially carson um your insights

37:49

were amazing thank you um and yes definitely go give carson a follow um

37:54

and jump on our social media as well if you literally just search reframe podcast we are on instagram

38:00

twitter and facebook and we want you to comment on our posts or flickr some dms

38:05

let us know what you thought about a quiet place too let us know your um inclusive disability representation

38:11

scores and literally just any other thoughts or tidbits that you had um especially like if you have

38:17

um the experience of hard of hearing or you're a deaf person like i'd really like to hear what you thought about

38:23

this representation um because obviously we don't represent that in this episode

38:28

and i think it's important to get um that perspective from people with the correct lived experience

38:34

other than that i also just want to say a really quick thank you to the community broadcasting foundation for

38:39

funding this podcast um and vodka series without them we wouldn't be able to have these amazing conversations and

38:46

obviously they're really important to affect change and change attitudes towards people with disability so we're

38:52

very grateful so thank you again everyone and we will see you again next week

38:57

bye

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