Anja Christoffersen: 'Heartbreak High'

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coming up on reframed along with this

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week's special guest Anya Christopherson

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today we'll be discussing heartbreak

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height which I'm so excited to do I

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thought there were things like that that

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made me uncomfortable but when I

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reflected on it I was like that's

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actually really how I feel disability is

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treated that you'll like gaslighting

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yourself into believing that you don't

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need them

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that's something we've been asking for

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for like years and years and now all of

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a sudden it's like possible in the click

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of a finger so I think that's still a

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long way to go but it's important

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[Music]

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okay

0:39

welcome back to reframed the podcast

0:41

that reframes how disabilities portrayed

0:43

in film and TV I'm your host Jason clymo

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and today I have the wonderful Observer

0:48

Robin Lambert with me as my co-host

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along with this week's special guest

0:52

Anja Christopherson

0:54

today we'll be discussing heartbreak

0:55

height which I'm so excited to do but

0:58

before we do let's say hey to Anya and

1:00

learn a little bit more about them so

1:02

welcome to the podcast Anya did you just

1:04

want to start off by letting us all know

1:05

a bit about you and what you do

1:08

absolutely it's such a pleasure to be

1:10

here I really struggle with the question

1:12

of what I do because I think like you

1:14

very probably do I wear a lot of hats

1:17

um so of course I'm a disability

1:19

Advocate

1:20

um from my own lived experience but I'm

1:23

also a social entrepreneur and I run my

1:25

own business called Champion health

1:26

agency where I represent people with

1:29

disability chronic illness and carers to

1:31

professionalize their lived experience

1:33

and create change using it which is

1:35

really exciting and cool

1:37

um and then of course on top of that do

1:39

my own consultancy I wrote a book when I

1:42

was 18 and yeah a few other things but

1:45

really all just lived experience driven

1:48

I love it and you're like just like a

1:50

few other things did you want to tell

1:52

everyone yeah I know all these amazing

1:55

things uh did you want to tell everyone

1:57

a little bit about the book that you

1:58

wrote as well

2:00

but yes there is called behind the smile

2:03

and I chose that because my disability

2:06

is predominantly invisible and so no one

2:08

really knew that I had a disability

2:10

growing up apart from my scars so I

2:13

wrote the book at 18 and I don't really

2:15

promote it much because I'm shy that you

2:18

know 18 year old me wrote this book that

2:20

they thought was so cool

2:22

um and now they wouldn't have

2:24

necessarily written the same thing

2:26

um so it basically told my story from

2:29

birth and all of these surgeries that I

2:31

had I've been growing up trying to find

2:34

my place in the world

2:36

um and deciding that that was in

2:38

modeling because I thought that the

2:40

fashion industry needed more

2:41

representation and how I navigated that

2:45

from an industry that wasn't accepting

2:47

of people that you know looked different

2:49

and I was someone that looked different

2:51

to them because I had scars

2:53

um so basically how I pushed through and

2:56

ended up walking at student Fashion Week

2:58

at 17 and that was a huge moment for my

3:01

career so it was really about that and

3:03

it basically stopped

3:05

um the book stopped when I started

3:06

getting into advocacy so it doesn't have

3:08

that component of my story

3:11

cool sounds like it might be time for a

3:13

bit of a sequel yeah

3:15

maybe maybe one day

3:18

yeah well you obviously wear a lot of

3:22

different hats but it's clear that

3:23

you're really passionate about

3:25

representation from all of the different

3:27

work you do

3:28

um we like to ask all of our guests why

3:30

they think genuine representation in

3:32

things like

3:33

um film and television is so important

3:35

so would you be able to sort of share

3:36

your thoughts on that

3:38

absolutely and I think it comes back to

3:41

that quote and I can't remember who said

3:42

it which is pretty embarrassing but it's

3:44

that you can't be what you can't see

3:46

yeah um so if you can't see someone that

3:49

looks like you or even embodies your

3:52

story in mainstream Media or television

3:55

or in my case as a child in modeling

3:57

which is what I was interested in you

3:59

don't think you can be it

4:01

um or on you know a board of directors

4:03

so I think it's so important to have

4:06

that there but what I realized through

4:07

my own experiences and fashion and you

4:09

know that's coming into even television

4:11

and things like that that if those

4:13

spaces aren't accessible for people that

4:16

actually have disabilities to work there

4:19

then it it is an inclusive environment

4:21

after all

4:23

um in the modeling scene for example

4:24

you'd have to work 12-hour days where

4:26

you wouldn't get you know a bottle of

4:28

water or a chair to sit down on

4:30

um and that wasn't sustainable for me

4:32

anymore so I realized that even though

4:34

they were giving me an opportunity to

4:35

show that I had a disability or I had

4:38

scars

4:39

um they weren't really giving me an

4:40

equitable opportunity to be there I was

4:42

having to sacrifice something of myself

4:45

um so I think there's still a long way

4:47

to go but it's important absolutely and

4:49

I think Robin and I can attest to that

4:51

we have both worked in the fashion

4:53

industry as well I think it's a really

4:55

great industry to

4:57

get into and like really understand

5:00

what's wrong with the industry for one

5:02

but two to get that kind of

5:05

um

5:07

mainstream like modern recognition

5:10

amongst like young adults I think

5:12

fashion is like really important for

5:15

that

5:16

um you know it launches careers we know

5:17

that

5:19

um and I think it's a very

5:20

impressionable industry too so it's like

5:22

I mean it really realistically dictates

5:24

what is like considered to be cool so I

5:27

think fashion still has such a long way

5:29

to go in terms of actually making it

5:31

like you've said more accessible

5:32

Equitable even just feasible for some

5:35

people with disability to actually work

5:36

in and I'm talking like in front of the

5:39

camera behind the camera in production

5:41

everywhere

5:43

um

5:44

but yeah it is exciting I think when you

5:46

see like really great mainstream fashion

5:48

representation as well but I totally

5:51

hear where you're coming from I guess

5:53

like one thing I really like to ask of

5:54

guests as well is

5:56

you know of course it's really important

5:58

to see people or or you know have that

6:03

representation on screen for yourself

6:04

but do you see or understand if there's

6:07

like any benefits for like wider society

6:09

and representing people with disability

6:11

I think that there is because I think

6:14

it's so hard to understand

6:16

what a life of disability is truly like

6:21

um there are so many misconceptions and

6:23

there are so many biases and I think

6:25

breaking down those biases helps to

6:28

really demystify disability and I feel

6:30

like that's where a lot of the stigma

6:32

and the Discrimination comes in due to

6:35

misunderstanding and if that

6:37

misunderstanding can be cleared by

6:40

people not only being seen but by

6:42

actually having a voice and being able

6:44

to tell their stories I mean that's why

6:46

you know the whole team comes in by

6:48

having creatives that can write and

6:50

produce and all of that as well

6:52

um I think that's where the power really

6:53

lies did you find as well after you sort

6:56

of wrote your book and shared your story

6:57

in obviously a lot of detail did your

7:00

relationships with certain people change

7:02

and did certain people understand

7:04

perhaps your experience more and and why

7:06

you know the way you see the world is

7:08

the way you see the world absolutely I

7:11

had people in my family that had

7:13

obviously known me since I was born look

7:16

at me in a complete different way and

7:18

friends that I've gone through High

7:19

School were seem in a completely

7:21

different way and understand me

7:24

um differently as well because there's

7:26

one thing being around someone that has

7:29

a disability and that's a whole another

7:31

thing being able to try and see the

7:32

world through their eyes yeah and from

7:34

their perspective and I think that's

7:36

what my book enabled them to see and

7:38

understand

7:40

um so I think it's so easy at least for

7:42

me to try and pretend that things are

7:44

okay

7:45

um when they're not or say that you know

7:48

I don't necessarily have access needs or

7:51

things like that um but also it gives

7:54

you a different perspective on life

7:56

um and that perspective is really

7:57

valuable to share because everyone can

7:58

learn from it yeah and I feel like I was

8:00

talking about this with one of our

8:02

previous guests as well about how like

8:04

people with disability are like um

8:07

like Masters at adjusting to our

8:10

surroundings and also then we took this

8:13

whole conversation and we're not a bit

8:14

of a tangent it was like almost like uh

8:16

self-therapy but uh we went on this kind

8:19

of like tangent about like how that is

8:22

just in so much conflict like like all

8:24

those like adjustments that we make in

8:27

order to like

8:28

fit in as much as possible with Society

8:31

is literally directly at odds with our

8:34

own like self-care all of the time to

8:37

the point where I was saying that I'm

8:39

building a house right now and I was

8:41

like do I really need these

8:42

modifications like nobody else is going

8:45

to want them it's going to be really bad

8:46

for resale and then I just had to have

8:48

this moment of realization where I was

8:49

just like

8:50

yes you need them like you have just

8:53

been like struggling through all of

8:54

these things for so long in like

8:57

inaccessible environments that you'll

8:59

like gaslighting yourself into believing

9:01

that you don't need them

9:08

with that with like Telehealth and all

9:10

of these other things and it was like oh

9:11

that's not something we've been asking

9:13

for for like years and years and now all

9:16

of a sudden it's like possible in a

9:17

click of a finger yeah exactly and it's

9:20

like all of these things actually are

9:22

possible and in some like many many ways

9:26

like for example like one really simple

9:28

solution that I think everybody would

9:30

agree to is like you know for example

9:32

like office workers not forcing staff to

9:35

come into offices but they found that

9:37

people were like a lot more effective

9:39

efficient like we're achieving better

9:41

results yeah productive and also saves

9:44

cost so it's like a lot of this actually

9:46

makes a lot of sense across the board

9:48

it's not just a specific solution for a

9:51

specific group of people and I mean on

9:54

that too like we're roughly 20 of the

9:56

population so it's like I think we're a

9:58

big enough group of people to

10:00

like make specific adjustments for too

10:02

by the way

10:03

you would hope so and I think it's

10:06

ultimately when it becomes appealing for

10:08

the majority Suddenly It's adopted and I

10:12

was at the national disability strategy

10:14

Forum recently and someone raised a

10:16

really good point around you know

10:18

Universal Design and how way back when

10:21

they used to have showers that were

10:23

stepped down showers and that was just

10:25

the trend it was every child was a

10:27

step-down shower and then suddenly

10:29

someone decided that they were ugly and

10:32

they just made all of them you know you

10:34

just go straight into the shower

10:36

um and that was Universal Design but the

10:39

change was because people thought it was

10:40

ugly yeah um so basically we just need

10:42

to like manipulate Society into

10:44

believing that all these like Unity

10:46

Universal Design features are actually

10:48

really trendy trendy I was literally I

10:52

was like literally having the same

10:53

conversation with my friend the other

10:54

day I was like man a dream accessible

10:56

shower is just like a rich person's

10:58

shower where it's like flat there's a

11:00

bench in there so they can like steam

11:01

yeah

11:04

just like just like rich people stuff

11:06

and like the one screen so there's like

11:08

not actually like two screens or like no

11:10

screens it's just like a slight slightly

11:13

inclined um or declined space the water

11:16

drains like nicely oh my God I love it

11:23

uh well I've Loved learning a bit more

11:25

about you and your experiences I know

11:27

but I think it's now time for us to

11:29

start chatting about our show for today

11:31

which is heartbreak High very excited to

11:34

chat about this one Robin did you want

11:36

to kick us off with a bit of a synopsis

11:45

and it is a high school comedy drama

11:49

um follows the drama and the exploits

11:53

and all of the typical things that

11:55

happen in a house School drama I guess a

11:57

particular interest to us there is an

12:01

autistic character called Quinny played

12:03

by um Chloe Hayden who is also an

12:05

autistic

12:06

um and yeah let's get into that and how

12:09

that is portrayed

12:11

my vet and there did you want to uh kick

12:13

us off with some of your thoughts about

12:15

heartbreak High

12:17

I really really enjoyed this so I

12:21

watched it in full

12:22

um and then I half re-watched it as well

12:25

to try and get some more insights and

12:27

just to make sure I didn't miss anything

12:28

but I thought that it was beautifully

12:32

played by Chloe

12:34

um and my understanding is that Chloe

12:35

actually was able to write

12:36

it as well

12:38

um I found at the beginning it to be a

12:42

little bit jarring that or how you know

12:45

Quinny was treated by people around her

12:47

at times

12:49

um a little bit dismissed and you know

12:51

in particular there was that one scene

12:54

where you know there were pre-drinks

12:56

before

12:57

um

12:58

Mardi Gras was it Sasha didn't come to

13:01

the pre-drink she went to a different

13:03

pre-drinks

13:05

um Queenie got upset she was waiting in

13:07

line and then Sasha came and was like oh

13:09

are you just stimming and I thought my

13:13

goodness that's so dismissive because

13:14

anyone I think would be pissed off if

13:17

their partner just ditched them that has

13:21

nothing to do with disability and it was

13:23

pinned on disability so I thought there

13:25

were things like that that made me

13:27

uncomfortable but when I reflected on it

13:30

I was like that's actually really how I

13:32

feel disability is treated yeah um and

13:34

so it's a really accurate representation

13:37

um so I thought that it was played

13:39

really well and written really well yeah

13:42

I've got to fully agree with you and

13:44

I've probably got to put my hand up and

13:45

say I could be a bit biased

13:47

um good friends with Chloe so I do know

13:50

a little bit as well about like yeah I

13:53

you know I guess all actors do have

13:56

control in like creating and crafting

13:59

their character

14:01

um but they just got it so right and

14:03

Chloe was very much involved in that

14:05

process to make it so right

14:09

um I think you're on the money as well

14:10

like some parts I was like holy

14:12

that's like a

14:13

no but I don't think it was like really

14:15

aggressive forms of ableism right like

14:18

super blatant like like not that I

14:21

remember from watching it

14:23

um but it was that really kind of like

14:25

nuanced stuff where it's like yeah this

14:27

person is treating you not even

14:30

differently but like I guess treating

14:32

you as like

14:35

this person who has disability who

14:39

everything that must be going on in your

14:42

life must be related to disability and I

14:44

think it's this like inadvertent form of

14:46

ableism that lots of non-disabled people

14:49

and other disabled people too by the way

14:52

like project on other disabled people

14:55

without realizing they're doing it

14:57

sometimes and I think that some of the

15:00

most harmful stuff like for me all of

15:03

the time I just get people that are just

15:05

like oh it's so great to see you at this

15:08

party or something like and then

15:10

obviously I get all of the

15:12

follow-up questions like what happened

15:14

blah blah blah and I'm like oh my God so

15:18

it's like

15:20

it's one of those clear moments where

15:21

you're like okay

15:23

I just clearly can't exist in this space

15:26

in the way that I just like wanted to

15:28

go to this party and just be me

15:30

without like I'm I don't believe in the

15:33

whole like don't see the disability sort

15:35

of thing like I'm like see the person in

15:37

the disability but also just like

15:39

see the person as disability all

15:42

entwined and you don't need to

15:44

constantly just always ask about

15:46

disability or assume that everything

15:47

that's going on in their life revolves

15:49

around their disability

15:51

um and I think they encompassed that

15:53

really well in heartbreak high in that

15:55

relationship with Sasha

15:58

um

15:59

and I think Quinny like found her voice

16:01

really well too

16:03

but anyway this is not my TED Talk Robin

16:05

what were your thoughts

16:09

[Laughter]

16:15

done and I I really liked that they

16:18

didn't lean into those stereotypes that

16:20

they tend to when portraying um autistic

16:23

characters like she wasn't a savant or

16:25

this like character Representatives

16:27

being very childlike

16:29

um you know and it wasn't like this over

16:31

the top thing that we've like seen in

16:33

some other shows maybe like the good

16:34

doctor and things like that yeah she was

16:37

with and without the autism I thought

16:39

like she was a pretty relatable

16:40

character yeah um which which was

16:43

awesome and I also liked how they didn't

16:45

skim over like showing things like how

16:47

she had to mask when she went to parties

16:49

and how you know she might experience

16:51

sensory overload or there might be like

16:53

sensory differences between her and a

16:55

partner that might cause like issues in

16:57

relationships but it's something you can

16:58

work through

17:00

um yeah so I just thought she was like

17:01

really probably one of the most

17:03

well-rounded autistic characters that

17:05

I've seen portrayed so far

17:07

100 degree agree and it's

17:10

comes down to the fact that like clearly

17:13

we know that behind the scenes Chloe had

17:15

control over lived experience lived

17:18

experience and that lived experience

17:19

because Chloe had agency and actually

17:22

you know forming this character really

17:24

well

17:26

actually you portrayed on screen in this

17:28

super genuine way whereas you know when

17:31

non-disabled people are just like fully

17:34

in control of creating these disabled

17:35

characters it's like

17:37

oh my God you're only scratching the

17:39

surface here and yeah no like the thing

17:42

like kind of what you were saying Robin

17:43

that you know with or without autism the

17:46

character was you know this really

17:48

interesting character that people could

17:49

relate to was because they did the work

17:51

to make the character multi-dimensional

17:53

like it wasn't just like this is Quinny

17:56

and she has autism and like that's it

17:59

and everything that happens in in

18:01

quinny's whole character Arc is just

18:02

related to their experiences of

18:04

disability No in fact it was like pretty

18:07

much the opposite and then their

18:08

experiences of disability were just kind

18:10

of like slotted in

18:14

is every person is multifaceted right

18:17

like yeah different identity

18:20

they are as opposed

18:22

to experiences

18:23

things you know you might be a woman you

18:26

might be queer you might be disabled

18:27

like you know there's there's so many

18:29

things that make up a person and I think

18:31

that was yeah that was one of the things

18:33

that I appreciated the most yeah I agree

18:35

yeah and I like that it wasn't you know

18:38

announced that this is our character

18:39

with a disabilities

18:41

you know like we're so proud that we've

18:44

got a character with a disability and

18:46

this is the one

18:47

so I feel like exactly as you were

18:50

saying Robin there were relatable

18:52

character regardless of that they were

18:55

the person with a disability or not I

18:58

feel like anyone could relate to Quinny

19:01

um and I think that was what was so

19:03

beautiful about it and just the Nuance

19:06

of being able to integrate you know

19:08

those moments of sensory overwhelm with

19:11

the moments of you know pure joy and

19:14

excitement and friendship and going to

19:16

these parties and I just loved that

19:20

there were those you know moments of

19:22

great friendship and that when he called

19:24

out ableism as well like I've never

19:26

heard that happen the TV show before

19:29

like ever so good

19:32

I think as well like what you've touched

19:34

on there and yeah as well with like

19:35

their friendships like one thing I

19:37

thought was like really good was kind of

19:40

how they showcased non like you know a

19:43

non-disabled friend like supporting a

19:46

disabled friend in a certain way

19:49

um but also the relationship dynamic

19:51

because it's not just like you know for

19:53

the non-disabled people out there that

19:55

might not have disabled friends it's not

19:56

that you're just constantly going to be

19:58

supporting them it's a

20:00

relationship like you support each other

20:02

back

20:03

um so I thought that was like really

20:05

well done as well

20:07

um

20:08

oh I've forgotten her name

20:10

quinny's like best friend but like some

20:12

of the ways like they supported Queenie

20:15

really well like just like parties and

20:16

things like taking to a quiet place like

20:18

getting in the bath I thought it was

20:19

hilarious

20:20

um all of that kind of stuff I just

20:22

thought was like

20:23

brilliantly done

20:24

um and it wasn't just totally not making

20:26

a big deal about it as a best friend

20:29

would just know those things like and

20:31

that's the difference between this

20:33

representation versus like the good

20:34

doctor because like the good doctor it's

20:36

like when these things happen of course

20:38

it's got to be right in the middle of

20:40

like a surgery and everyone's like what

20:41

do we do and it's like really like is

20:44

that really what would happen in the

20:45

real world everyone would just freak out

20:47

and run around not knowing what to do

20:49

like I think

20:50

somewhere in that organization they

20:53

probably have like a support network set

20:55

up for this autistic person to actually

20:57

do their job really really well like

20:59

that would be the realistic approach to

21:02

this whole scenario but obviously that

21:04

doesn't work for the good doctor's

21:05

entertainment value but uh I thought

21:07

yeah executed really well in heartbreak

21:09

High to be perfectly honest

21:12

um did we think were there any moments

21:13

where you were kind of like wish that

21:15

didn't happen or or anything that you

21:17

think they could like improve on

21:18

possibly for like future seasons

21:21

oh because they did it so well yeah like

21:24

they're really yeah

21:26

but something something that

21:27

is a bit away from Quinny that I found

21:30

to be interesting because I have complex

21:32

trauma I found it really interesting

21:34

caches

21:36

um you know relationship with trauma and

21:38

like about sexual trauma not wanting to

21:40

be intimate and I thought that that

21:42

integration into heartbreak high was

21:45

interesting because I hadn't seen that

21:47

represented in TV before in such a way

21:50

yeah

21:51

um so I'm looking forward to seeing how

21:53

that's explored further and I'm not sure

21:56

if they use like the term asexual at all

21:59

but I think like

22:00

they they obviously like play into this

22:03

realm of like asexuality as well that is

22:05

just never explored like I think I've

22:07

seen it in like two shows ever in my

22:09

whole entire life of like watching a

22:11

ton of TV and film so I'm like I

22:14

think that's really important for a

22:16

whole group of people to see this

22:17

represented represented

22:24

complex issues quite well oh God yeah

22:26

yeah

22:28

gave them a lot to think about

22:32

yeah I'm like what am i 27 and I was

22:35

like holy this is hectic

22:37

yeah but like super entertaining at the

22:40

same time

22:43

they definitely did like the whole like

22:45

Australian Euphoria without like all the

22:48

glitter uh really well I think

22:52

absolutely it made me feel really old

22:54

and like I missed out on a whole lot

22:59

of time I was like

23:01

made me feel nostalgic of the days where

23:04

you made like those Maps where

23:07

you're like oh this person kissed this

23:09

person and I'm like do they still do

23:10

that surely they don't still do that at

23:13

school now like that have like a more

23:14

complicated way where there's like a

23:16

website like some code it's on the iPad

23:18

and it yeah it gets sent into the cloud

23:20

it's just a massive group chat on

23:22

messenger

23:23

well they learn coding in school these

23:25

days someone probably developed an app

23:27

yeah yeah yeah it would be an app 100

23:29

yeah someone would have set up an app

23:31

that's so funny

23:36

cool well I think it's time for us to

23:38

give our scores for heartbreak high on

23:40

our inclusive disability representation

23:42

scale for those who are just joining us

23:44

for the first time this episode this is

23:47

a completely made upscale it doesn't

23:49

actually mean anything in the real world

23:51

other than reflecting and embodying our

23:54

thoughts on heartbreak high five out of

23:56

five is like

23:58

the best disability representation we've

24:00

seen in our lives and zero or negative

24:03

numbers if you feel that way inclined is

24:05

uh really really bad so why don't we

24:07

kick off with you Robin what did you

24:09

give heartbreak High out of five on our

24:11

IDR scale

24:13

um I gave it

24:17

a fun you know things that were wrong

24:20

with it and obviously yeah I'm looking

24:21

forward to the second season to see how

24:23

things develop even more and I just

24:25

didn't want to give it a five because

24:27

you know I'm hoping things get even

24:29

better yes

24:30

you can't keep five five is perfect yeah

24:33

five minutes you can't get perfect

24:37

Anya

24:39

unfortunately stole my justification in

24:42

my school but yeah

24:44

it is 4.5 as well

24:46

um it's basically as close to perfect as

24:49

I can imagine but I'm looking forward to

24:51

seeing what more

24:53

um Can Happen for Quinny and with

24:56

Chloe's you know creative career

24:59

um as Quinny so she's just skyrocketing

25:01

it's crazy yeah it's incredible yeah uh

25:05

well I gave it a four and a half as well

25:07

but for slightly different reasons

25:08

because I mean it's epic representation

25:12

um probably my main thing was that I'd

25:13

love to see like a bit more

25:15

representation and like a variety of

25:17

disability rep I kind of thought surely

25:20

there's not just like one disabled

25:21

person at the school

25:22

um you know in that kind of large

25:25

friendship group when we are talking

25:26

like 20 of the population

25:29

um

25:30

and I know reflecting on the industry

25:32

where it's at right now it's like this

25:34

is like gold standard but I'm

25:36

like let's push it further I'm like

25:37

that's why I'm not giving it a five

25:39

because I'm like five is like yeah

25:40

you've done everything you can do

25:42

um whereas I'm like four and a half like

25:44

we're celebrating that you've done a

25:45

really freaking good job but that point

25:47

five is let's get more disability rep

25:50

out there so

25:52

um they're my thoughts

25:55

love your work I just want to say really

25:57

quick thank you to the both of you for

25:59

joining us for this week's episode we've

26:02

absolutely loved having you and now uh

26:04

loved getting you back as well Robin

26:06

it's exciting uh

26:08

yeah and thank you everyone as well who

26:12

followed along from home with this

26:13

episode

26:15

um just want to let you know that you

26:17

can let us know your thoughts on social

26:18

media if you search us on Facebook

26:21

Instagram and Twitter if you search

26:23

reframe podcast or podcast reframed

26:26

can't remember which way it is on which

26:27

platforms so just give it a crack and

26:29

I'm sure you'll find us

26:30

um or if email is better for you or if

26:33

you've written like a thesis on all of

26:34

the reasons why we're right or wrong

26:36

about heartbreak high you can email us

26:38

at hello atreframepodcast.com

26:41

um we really do want to hear your

26:42

thoughts we want to hear your RDR scores

26:44

we obviously want you all to go watch

26:46

Heartbreak High support Chloe's career

26:49

um so so exciting to see a young Aussie

26:52

actress with disability just subscribe

26:55

rocketing and yeah just can't wait to

26:58

hear what you all think and lastly

27:00

before we sign off I just want to say a

27:02

huge thank you to the community

27:03

broadcasting Foundation helping to fund

27:06

this series thank you so much again Anya

27:08

for joining us thank you Robin bye

27:15

[Music]

27:22

thank you

27:29

this has been a production of attitude

27:32

Foundation

27:37

[Music]

27:38

[Applause]

27:41

[Music]

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