Ming Luo: 'The Fundamentals of Caring' + 'In The Dark'

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welcome to reframed the podcast about disability and media in this series we shine a light on how people with

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disability are represented on our screens why is this important because authentic representation matters

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media is powerful and more often than not they get it very very wrong my name is jason climo and i'll be your

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host join me my co-host and a wonderful selection of guests as we review analyze

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and score disability representation in tv and film [Music]

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welcome back to reframe the podcast about disability in media my name is jason climo and i'm your host about this

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series where we'll be analyzing how inclusive representation of people's disability is in some mainstream media

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and today we'll be talking about one tv show and one film today i also have my

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co-host robin lambert here did you want to say hello robin yeah hi guys so excited to be back um

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i'm actually really excited to analyze the media today um i found them super interesting

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and also excited as always for our guests so it's gonna be good i'm really excited you want to tell us a little

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about who who our guest is or even just tell us their name whatever yeah so um ming is our guest today um

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just a really awesome all-around person but really excited to hear about their um experiences and advocacy and what

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they think of the media that we are analyzing today and ming specifically chose out one of our pieces of media so

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let's just tell people what they are so the first one that we'll be analyzing just you and i is the fundamentals of

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caring uh the film and i think it's quite popular that one um and i think is it paul rudd is that

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his name yeah all right for rods in it i mean he's a bit of a draw card obviously because definitely with that comedy uh

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background i loved so much of it and obviously won't give away too much until we dive into it i love so much of it but

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they were just little bits that i was as always little bits that i was a bit like i think we could have done this a bit better yeah

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then we will introduce ming have a bit of a chat with me ask her some questions about her life we'll do our classic 20

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questions with her and then we'll jump into analyzing in the dark so ming actually chose in the

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dark i asked about a series that um she particularly felt connected to um so as

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a person with vision impairment she actually connected quite well with this uh series again won't give away too much

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until you give the overview and we analyze um but there's so much in that that i found

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so hilarious that i keep like rewinding it like just enjoying it too much that i

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wasn't being critical enough yeah wait let me go back how was that actually frame it was funny

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how was it so good yeah so anyway all right are you ready to get struck stadium yeah let's jump

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into it straight into analyzing our first piece of media which is obviously fundamentals of caring just

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a film did you want to give us a bit of an overview um so like you said earlier paul rudd is i guess the major celeb in

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this one the draw card but he plays a writer who has retired after a personal

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tragedy i'm not sure how much we want to spoil the movie but um

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so yeah and he ends up becoming a caregiver to this disabled teen and um

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i think it's really a story about friendship and about care regardless of

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disability like um so that was interesting for me but yeah they basically embark on this impromptu road

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trip which as you know having a disability can throw up some challenges

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yes but yeah their ability to cope is sort of tested along the way and it's just a really i think again an awesome

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story about friendship and about care um yeah yeah loved it i like like i said so many

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things that i loved just a few things that i wasn't really happy with number one primarily it always comes back to

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this with me i feel like i'm always on this bandwagon but it is so important is that the main character who was the character

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with disability was portrayed by a non-disabled person and i guess the big thing in this one too is

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that like it was big budget so if there was anything where they needed to like adjust the storyline or use any like

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it might have been awesome yeah and also awesome opportunity to have someone like paul rudd like you

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know making it that big like hollywood name film and then uplifting a person with disability like or an actor with

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disability into that you know same league so it was a missed opportunity i felt and also i

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just i don't remember a scene in the film where it was necessary to have a

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non-disabled person yeah you know there wasn't like a flashback to win for or anything like that because

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you know correct me if i i'm wrong and if i'm remembering it wrong but i'm pretty sure the character was disabled from birth so yeah yeah

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yeah exactly so i'm like just was confused i guess and it felt like they were just

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using like the star power basically to i i obviously for an able-bodied audience

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like it wouldn't be that clear but i feel like as a person with a disability and like lived

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experience of like mobility issues and stuff like you can tell when that performance isn't authentic

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um and as much as they got right and and as great as the portrayal was like there's just having that that lived

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experience just gives that level of authenticity i think to the portrayal of a character with a disability which yeah being in the

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community you can definitely pick up on definitely and like i think a lot of actors

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like i think a lot of actors non-disabled actors when they play a character with disability obviously do their research

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yeah but i just don't think that anything is ever going to compare to lived experience like the way that it

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translates it is genuine like you don't have to pretend like it's a genuine it just is the way that it is so um

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obviously there's an element of acting still because they're playing a character but it's yeah if you have a ability it's always going

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to be the most genuine representation possible so that was a very missed opportunity i felt so um the other thing i really

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wasn't that happy with was i feel like um there weren't any other characters with disability and i felt like that was

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a massive missed opportunity too um i feel like there was this whole narrative around

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the main character feeling so isolated and feeling different all of the time and

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obviously that was going to happen if you're not connected with your community so a big part of i guess like my

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identity as a person with disabilities obviously learning from and building those relationships with other people i think

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though on the other hand that we are quite privileged in that we are very well connected to a community both

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through the internet and and you know through my like myself like through a sporting environment but there are a lot

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of people that aren't connected within the community and they do feel very isolated and lonely and that they're

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living in experience that other people can't understand so i do think that it's also important to show that yeah so

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perhaps like they could have started off showing that he was isolated feeling that way because literally he wasn't leaving the house

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and then once he left the house and then maybe built that connection like yeah it might even have just been like a scene

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at the very end where it was just like him going to the shops or something and he just like bumped into

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someone he knows and it's also another person's disability like i just feel like that is such an important

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part because it is that narrative around like are people with disability feel isolated because they're like the only one and

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it's like no that's not true like it's like 20 15 to 20 of the population in most countries like so

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um i i feel like that was really important is there anything you felt like was done really well

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um yeah like i said i actually really yeah i really did enjoy this movie and i don't know if it's just because um you

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know personal experiences and stuff like that but i found the way that they handled sort of

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not having the carer pity him and and that being valued in the relationship but yeah also sort of showing the

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struggles and anxieties of having a disability and kind of just wanting to be able to do normal things like i think

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everyone assumes that when you have a disability especially like one that impacts your mobility like oh you must

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be really sad because you know you can't run up a mountain and it's like no that's that's not the case but i am

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really frustrated that like every time i drink soup i spill it all over myself like yeah so yeah and i think like for

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him the big thing was like he just wanted to stand to pee like and i think that's like

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yeah it's those little things that can build up and sometimes lead to this frustration it's not the fact that we can't do these like big grand gestures

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of like athleticism or whatever so yeah and often that stuff that's like can be

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overcome by like more inclusive mindsets or accessibility exactly so yeah that was one thing i loved the relationship

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between um trevor and ben so trevor's obviously the main character with disability and dance um the carer

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correctly forgot that the wrong way around um but i loved how like the caregiver

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was like not like you said not pitying yeah there was this one particular part

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where um he says something like it's something like other people with

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disability go out and do normal things yeah all day or something and i was like this

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is perfect because usually like it's it's narrated in such a different way like

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isn't shown that people with disability do go out and do normal yeah like it's such uh

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it's just not shown i guess like throwing in those like standard normal everyday

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and i know like in my experience in my family it's not like my parents have pushed me because they want me to be

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able body but they've you know just sort of helped me overcome some of those anxieties of like not taking a chance

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because you're not sure how a situation is going to turn out and you know it leads to having that independence and

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that confidence and i think that's great to sort of highlight that in a hilarious like funny movie so

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definitely and again like using that star power to build like yeah having that push about and like look

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there's so much that i think was done right about like framing and yeah in this it was just such a missed

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opportunity basically yeah passing and i think also this i'm going to bring it to language

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again and we know that we always kind of talk about how language is contextualized within a film um but there was some i mean like

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i think probably like uh like a warning to anyone who might go and watch the film after hearing us talk about this

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the r word is used in it there's parts of me that's kind of like i understand what they were trying to do

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and i'm pretty sure it was trevor the person with disability that used the language most of the

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english but there's you know there's other words that are used as well that are quite ableist and i'm kind of like

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how necessary was this to the storyline to show this i think it's such an interesting

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thing because i kind of argue with myself because i think it's important to show that disability can be ableist too

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and there's internalized ableism yeah like to take it to that next step and use that language because yeah

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i think if you use a language you've got to have a scene later on that explains in some way like gives the context of

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that language yeah actually it's inappropriate to use if you don't yeah the way the way that i saw it is i

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guess you know number one like he's in the beginning he's kind of portrayed as being a bit of an he is a teenager so he

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wouldn't be like clued on i guess to the world sorry sorry to interject but he does pretend to have like a neurological

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impairment that he doesn't actually have and i'm like yeah yeah why does this keep happening in films like i know it's just like to set that

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scene that he's like an i don't even think it was just that though i think it's it was sort of in a way

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portraying the frustration that teenagers with disabilities can have

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when the whole disability community is lumped in together and people have one perception of what it means to be

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disabled and that is that you have an intellectual impairment you have as well and that that i think that is a

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real frustration especially for young people and i did notice that the mom actually says don't use that word

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yes yes perfect so yeah i i sort of was again i was torn on

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it because i was like do we really need it but then i thought it was yeah it was actually an interesting way to portray

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that frustration you mean that it happened she said don't say that i must have yeah

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but that's perfect like again that's like the perfect way to show that yeah he can be an ableist even

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though he's a person with a disability but then yeah we make it clear that that's actually not appropriate to you know because i guess yeah every time

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that like ableist language is used in a film no matter the context my fear is that some people that watch it will take

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away that it's okay to say or in a certain context it's okay when obviously

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you know unless it's a reclaimed word and only have reclaimed it can use it um

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most of the time it's just not appropriate so yeah that's my main

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language that's why i always put it up i guess um last thing that i actually loved about this was the romance

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like that was awesome just to again portray a character that isn't this asexual naive

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like virgin that is you know a person with a disability like and again they managed to portray the anxieties that

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people with disabilities might have entering that being you know perceived as being different but also you know

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like it's just a cool friendship between him and and the girl that they pick up and like

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i just thought that was awesome yeah they did the whole like teen coming of age and yeah the person with disability

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really well like in certain in like in those certain situations i was literally just like you just watched that half an

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hour you would just literally be like oh yeah this is just like like a normal teenager like coming to grips with like

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working out that they're like sexually attracted to like a person yeah person like are they going to be interested in

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me or not and then obviously then you got to the scenes where where disability was then talked about as well

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but i thought they did it in such a great way and dismantled the whole idea because

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you know because he was young and because he was quite isolated of course he felt that

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this person was not going to be interested in you but that it happened

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she is and so i thought that was so powerful because obviously you know the

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the age group that it's directed at being that it is that like teen coming of age is teenagers like

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and so i thought that was so important to show that romance and break that down because yeah probably would have left

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people with disability would have left the cinema or off left you know watching that film feeling you know

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kind of excited that okay yeah empowered and something is empowered and then non-disabled people would probably have

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left being like okay yeah like these sorts of things are possible because i think there's a part where i don't know how i loved how it

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like came across but like the girl he's interested in which is selena gomez we should probably

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mention oh yeah thanks a joke about like if you can get it up or something oh yeah yeah and then

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he kind of just like plays that off straight away and he's just like they like have a joke about it i can't even

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remember how it is but she like asked him two questions yeah and then he answers one yeah once yeah to just sort

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of make it out like he can so um that was a very like teen way of going about talking about sex as well i

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felt yeah but yeah basically the idea of presenting people as sexual beings

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like disabled people as sexual beings and romantic beings very very important i was happy they did

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this so okay score time what did you give it um because obviously the character isn't

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authentically represented in the fact that there is a disabled actor i gave it a four out of

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five but everything else i pretty much yeah really enjoyed so cool i gave it a three and a half so

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again um but yeah and literally same reasons which i think you know we're all on that

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same wavelength around like inclusive casting is obviously very important and genuine representation is

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obviously very important and so you're always going to lose points for that if you definitely well and just again harping on but such

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a missed opportunity to elevate you know a actor with disabilities profile and

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using poor pride to mentor that person even like in their acting ability and just anyway all that

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but we bad on enough i think about fundamentals of caring i think now it's time to meet our very special guest

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for today so ming if you'd like to join us come say hello

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um we're very excited to have you um did you just want to start off by introducing yourself telling us a bit

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about what you do know you do a lot of advocacy work so maybe touch on that

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no worries um and thanks for inviting me it's so exciting to be here um talking about these films i was just like

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mentally con commenting on everything you go because i watched it and i did really

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and i was like yeah agreeing with everything um good film um so uh i mean i am

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23. i always forget i feel like i went past 22 i just stole caring

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shame um [Laughter]

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so i have a vision impairment i was born with retinitis pigmentosa um

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which basically means your retina starts degenerating over time um

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i was born in singapore and moved to australia with my family when i was nine um

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i did a bachelor of economics and commerce at uni and now i'm working at the department of finance in wa um but

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i'm doing nothing to do with finance i'm more in like the training space um professional development type thing um

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which is cool and i'm also currently just started doing my master's in public

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policy and i was meant to be in london for that but you know little virus had to get in the way

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are you gonna go you're still gonna get to go um i'm hoping so i'm crossing everything

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um i'm i was meant to go september but i'm looking at next academic year september

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and just hoping hoping hoping um that's my fingers for you yeah thank

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you thank you but the online learning is going all right at the moment so that's all good um and yes i have been

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in the advocacy space for quite a while now so i started when i was in high school my last year of high

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school i was introduced to the uh it was a

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youth um advocacy council for vision impairment

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and started with that and found it really interesting and so kind of just spiraled on into

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several projects and committees um but the one i've been on longest probably is the youth disability

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advocacy network um widen which uh works to advocate on behalf of

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all youths living with a disability across wa um and we've really grown

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i was with it from the start and we've grown so much over the past five years or so and um

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we started off doing stuff like um workshops and accessibility audits so more the educational side um and now

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we've got quite a few um projects funded um to do with

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self-advocacy and really empowering individuals to be able to advocate for some for

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themselves right which i think is really important absolutely

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that's awesome yeah really cool um is there a particular reason why you think this

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kind of work is important now like do you think we still have a way to go in terms of progressing that or

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oh yeah definitely um my biggest thing or yeah my biggest thing is social

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inclusion um just because i went through it myself as well going from uh not being in the community to being in the

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community and feeling the difference it makes so you know i want that for everyone to be

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able to have a group or to feel like they belong somewhere and a big part of that is

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uh just attitudes public attitudes and i know we've gotten a lot better um but

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there's still a long way to go and it's not always a thing that people consciously

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do and like i don't like people with disabilities or i don't talk about anything like that

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a lot of times a lot of the time it comes just out of ignorance and that's why i think

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advocacy work like educational stuff educating the public and things like that is so important because yeah it's

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one of the fundamental building blocks for changing attitudes um and it goes both

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ways as well you empower the public and you also empower the person with disabilities and

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yeah then hopefully you can make a better world i know i love like when you talk about

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this you bring it down to like and then hopefully the world just becomes really inclusive and beautiful

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no but it's very true and i think what you're talking about is unconscious biases because obviously people can be actively like

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ableist which is basically discriminating against people with disability but a lot of the time that's

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not the case anymore a lot of the things that we face now is to do with unconscious biases

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which is like ignorances towards people with disability and people don't even realize they're doing it so

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um you know other other disabled people do it to other disabled people it happens everywhere so

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um yeah and that's kind of what we're trying to tap into i guess with this podcast because media and representation

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dictates people's perceptions a lot of the time whether they realize it or not it's actually feeding that unconscious

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bias in their mind so if we can have more positive and realistic representations of people with

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disability will feed those uh people's perceptions in society

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and that society will keep progressing and becoming more inclusive so that's the idea here and then we're kind of

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just telling them what they did right or wrong really so i guess on that topic why do you

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think i've sort of probably ruined it already why do you personally think um

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representing people with disability in film and tv is so important and that can be in front of the camera and behind the

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camera as well yeah well obviously everything that you said

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sorry same as above but but it is true it is very important

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um and you know people with disabilities what make up 15 20 of the population so

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i think film and media should be representative of that as well you know it's not they should portray that it

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should be an accurate portrayal of the demographic in society

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um and it is also a very big important step to um it's probably a bad word to use but like

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normalizing disabilities i guess just bringing it more front and center all the time and it just breaks down the

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whole our disabilities is this kind of thing in the corner and you know we pay attention to it when we need to or

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whatever yeah it's like i think i got this from you robin one time when i was talking to you

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that you came up with this phrase i think and you might have heard it elsewhere but it's it's about disability being a

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normal part of human diversity so representing that because we are we exist and like you said we're i think

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we're one of the biggest marginalized communities in um most countries

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so why are we still being excluded everywhere really

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and then to sort of bring it back to your own personal experience do you think there are any specific barriers

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within um film and television either in front or behind of the camera um that people with vision impairment or

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who are blind sort of face that other people might not think about

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um i don't know too much about the tv and film industry but just

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i think it's um a very visual

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industry um obviously so in terms of acting um the biggest thing that probably comes

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to me is especially for people who are born blind things like facial expression um body

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languages stuff is probably something that's very difficult for them to grasp

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um so i see i understand the challenges there and also um i guess things with editing

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or video editing or whatever else goes on behind this thing

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is also quite difficult if you don't actually have the vision for it um i guess i guess even engaging with

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like media do you do you face any challenges that people might not be conscious of as a as an audience even um

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yeah well it's i thought this would be something fairly well known but it isn't so the other day um

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because i watched lucifer recently loved that show and i was recommending it to my friend

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and she was like oh yeah that's a show of that that that hunk right and i was like i guess so

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ah so you don't see it i was like no i just um because i just listened to the audio described track

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and i don't watch it at all and she was just like oh right i had to explain it to her

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so yeah so for me if the film is not audio described it's very hard to know what what's going on unless unless it's

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one of those like sitcoms where they're talking all the time and it's fairly easy to gauge what's happening

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but some films are terrible without lucifer being one of them i

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tried to watch season three when it first came out and it didn't have the audio track and i gave up after two

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episodes i was like i have no idea what's going on so is that a thing that happens like do you find that a lot of

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tv series and films don't have the audio track and then if they do do they often come out like after like is it a few

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weeks or a few months i think there's some legislation now that

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every um film or tv that's being produced has to come out with an audio track um i think at the same time when

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it's released um so it's it's yeah it's rare that i can't find one

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unless it tends to be the older ones yeah yeah that's fair

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cool well already i reckon let's dive straight into analyzing our second piece

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of media which is the one that you chose for us today and we're very grateful i'm so excited to hear your thoughts yeah

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i'm very excited to hear your thoughts um and so it is the tv series in the dark which you can watch on

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stan i think there's one called into the dark so don't get confused like i almost did

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that it's called in the dark and it's quite yeah i'll let robin to tell us a bit about uh what happens

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yeah so it's this um american crime drama television series um and it's

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about this character called murphy who is a blind woman in her 20s and she's kind of just a little bit of a mess of a

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person to be honest like has a lot of issues going on um she basically only

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has two friends which is jess her her very understanding roommate and um tyson

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who's this this teenager who saved her from um a violent mugging um

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and yeah it's tyson uh she ends up stumbling across tyson and um you know presumes that he's

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dead and it's kind of this uh narrative of her trying to figure out what happened to a friend when the police

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don't really seem all that interested in solving that crime um but yeah it was super interesting i i

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personally really enjoyed the representation in this tv show so i'm super excited to hear what um ming has

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to say about it as a blind person so yes there's so much

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there's so much to dissect here especially since it's a series of two seasons now okay i'll start with the

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main character murphy um obviously points for the blind person being the main character but extra

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points for it being like a blindness is very much like a side thing the main focus is still with

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the plot which is it's a whole forensic in oh it's a whole like

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what do you call it investigation uh mystery solving kind of show

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um which i loved and then all the you know issues she faces as a blind person

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it kind of it kind of just is just seamlessly integrated into the film like she would just be going to the

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drugstore you'll see her using her cane fueling up all the bottles taking a sip

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which flavor it is it just kind of yeah it's not a focus but it's just there and it adds

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humor into it as well yeah me and jason were both saying like we had to keep going back to watch it because it was

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just so funny that we forgot like we were supposed to be analyzing it like i was just enjoying it so much that i was

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like oh wait i'm supposed to be like analyzing this character i love that scene where um i think it's

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one of the first episodes where she hooks up with this married man and then the wife comes back and then the man's

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like oh go hide hide hide and then she goes under the table and it's a glass table

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and the wife's like nice to see you again murphy and then she like taps the table and she's like it's glass isn't it

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so just things it makes it so funny and makes it just part of life type yeah you know um

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which is the other thing as well the character murphy is not any stereotypical portrayal of someone with

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this with a disability at all she's not doing it staying at home doing nothing type thing we're not in the traditional

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way anyway um and she's not like this perfect working really hard

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like role models she's a mess she's alcoholic smokes uh

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what one night stands every night type thing um

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so yeah it's just very your average person i think they did

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really good at breaking down the tropes that like people possibility especially like people who are blind like that the

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tropes that are often attached to them which is obviously yeah like you've said that they might often stay living their

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parents for ages or forever um or that they'll have like someone living in the

31:33

home that's constantly like caring for them like she has this great relationship with her friend obviously that she lives with where they sort of

31:39

like lean on each other and care for each other um and like you said she's not like this

31:44

traditional either like needing care all the time or this perfect like role model person

31:51

she's like a very complicated complex person the only thing i couldn't really work out is that like was she almost

31:57

like not probably not a great word to use but spiraling and like doing these activities like anti-social activities

32:04

because she was struggling with her blindness did you find that ming like what was

32:10

your perception of that i think initially no but there was it's i think

32:16

maybe in season two some of these issues were touched on a bit more um so

32:21

they kind of explore on the side as well her dependency on her roommate chess we

32:27

obviously just does everything kind of does everything for her because you know she's so nice um and murphy's a slob

32:35

um and i don't know if any conclusions were really reached but it was more of a

32:40

question that was posed you know does she really yeah jess can she really live independently on her own

32:47

um and from my viewing that was one of the things that i really enjoyed it kind of

32:53

did a really good job of clapping back to some of the assumptions of the general able-bodied public whilst also

32:59

perhaps yeah tackling these signs of internalized ableism or denial i think

33:05

like that there's a couple of scenes there was one where she sort of when she came across the body of tyson she was

33:10

like oh he smelled different and then then the the cop was like oh right yeah because your other senses are like

33:16

heightened and she's like no that's not a thing i'm not daredevil like he just smelled different like it was so good

33:23

and then like um yeah there was another one where she was like you know trying to you know she was saying she was going

33:29

to try and solve the the murder and her roommate jess was like you can't do that and she's like why because i'm blind and

33:34

she's like no because you didn't go to school for it and you can't even remember to like plug your phone in like

33:39

so i thought it was like really good and then also sort of how they highlighted the importance of the relationship um

33:45

between murphy and then the other blind character i think was the cop's daughter

33:51

yeah the importance of having like role models and like sort of friendships

33:56

within the community so i thought like it tackled those sides of things like in a really fun way

34:02

definitely they also tackled like like in that relationship between murphy and chloe the pitying mindset as well as

34:09

invasive questions because obviously you know we all get so many invasive questions from people on the street

34:14

sometimes and it's frustrating and i think that was such a good thing to break down because there's a part where

34:21

i think it's it's one of the cops someone is like asking is it wants to ask her um

34:27

when she became blind and why and they said like can you tell me how and she's like how i lost my virginity and then

34:33

she like starts telling that story and i'm like she just he's so like witty and fast and breaks

34:38

down that like about like asking these invasive questions in such a funny way

34:44

too yeah i loved it and i think even in that scene like the cop says oh like wow i'm

34:50

so sorry for like how she actually did lose her sight and she's like please tell me like that's not how you treat

34:55

chloe like yes yeah like you've got to stop doing that yeah exactly and she says something like treat her like you

35:01

know any other teenager like make her do chores and things like that so yeah it's like diminishing that whole pitying my

35:08

mind set which i think is obviously so important because that's what we're here all to talk about

35:14

is anything else you really wanted to highlight me from from in the dark um

35:19

well yes this was one thing i actually did not like about it as much as everything else

35:24

is the assisted technology they portrayed so when she uses her phone and when she

35:31

goes on the computer and stuff it's all she talks to it um and it sounds like she's using siri um just because there's

35:37

like that baby she talks to it and her phone does it i'm like no siri doesn't do all that stuff for you

35:45

it'd be nice if siri did do all that for you though yeah it's it's voice over um and it would have been really cool if

35:51

they actually showed you know her using voiceover every now and then um

35:56

and and because that's actually what people use and especially on the computer as well i remember there was one scene

36:02

they i think they were trying to hack into the police's computer um and they just did tried to open all

36:10

these files with voice command or whatever it was a bit unrealistic for me

36:16

yeah but they're probably trying to make it like funny too i think still yeah yeah yeah

36:21

which is fine um yeah yeah explaining probably bugged me a little bit

36:26

yeah because it'd be nice if it was like that easy sort of thing but it's just not and i think this is probably one of

36:32

the things that again i always talk about this about like genuine casting and representation of people with

36:38

disabilities that the actress i don't believe is actually blind or visually impaired so um

36:44

and i mean obviously there would have been different challenges that would come with actually genuinely casting

36:50

that role as as as a person with disability or a person who is blind or

36:55

with vision impairment but i think those sorts of things would have been so

37:01

much more genuine like the person would have had that on their phone already like they would have just had that experience they could have brought to

37:08

the show and made it way more genuine yeah i wonder what the reason because um

37:13

i believe her name is chloe the cub's daughter who's also blind she's genuinely blind yeah

37:19

so i think she could have had some input but maybe there were some reasons why they didn't include that sort of stuff

37:26

so i i don't know i don't know and yeah i just think we've got to get out of this mindset that it's

37:32

too hard to you know use genuinely disabled people in disabled roles like it's like we've

37:38

just got to do it and you've got to just be accessible and inclusive enough in the casting in the filming in everything

37:46

like post editing everything to make it accessible and inclusive for them so that you can get that genuine representation like it has to be

37:52

prioritized i think anyway enough of my ranting let's go to scores ming on

38:00

the inclusive disability representation scale out of five what would you give in the dark

38:05

well i was actually pretty super impressed by this so i gave it a 4.5

38:10

good job nice right i am i gave it a four and uh i gave it a four out of five just because

38:16

of that you know i thought it might have been a good opportunity to highlight you know an actor with vision impairment as

38:22

always um but everything else yeah i really enjoyed about this and i'm so glad that ming brought it to my

38:27

attention yeah me too i'm exactly the same as you robin again i feel like we

38:33

are just way too in sync one day we're going to have a big just a big b

38:38

something up that we don't agree on i was a four point four out of five sorry um because i just do think that

38:47

this is such a good opportunity as it always is it's such a good opportunity to have that inclusive and

38:53

genuine representation and casting so missed opportunity there but i will keep

38:58

supporting the show because it is very good framing um and it's also hilarious so if you haven't seen this

39:05

you should um but that's about it from us today so thank you so much for joining me today

39:12

ming and robin especially you ming is our special guest giving us your insights allowing us to almost like

39:18

delve into your brain and ask you all the questions about different things um and obviously special mention thank you

39:24

for putting us me and robin onto in the dark um

39:29

very excited to keep watching that show i'll need to watch season two because i'll be honest i watched uh up to the end of season one um and yeah for anyone

39:37

who followed along thank you so much as well for following us this episode um go check

39:43

out robin and ming's uh instagrams or i don't actually know me you're not on instagram facebook no i'm not buying

39:49

them on facebook yes yes you can go check them out there um and obviously if you'd like to keep the conversation

39:55

going we want to hear your thoughts about the fundamentals of caring and in the dark jump on our

40:01

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40:07

you or if you just prefer to email us with your big stories and different opinions

40:13

tell us uh everything then you can email us at hello reframepodcast.com

40:19

we really want these conversations to continue i say it every week but we really want these conversations to continue because we're not just here to

40:26

harp on we're here to invite other people into this conversation to get people to think about when they're

40:32

watching something how inclusive was that framed and and to go and google search when they see a character with disability if the actor or actress or

40:39

person who played that role was a person with disability and then hopefully as a society we can

40:46

start thinking more inclusively and then the people that make these things will then obviously become more inclusive as

40:51

well so that's our dream make a better world like being said make a better world

40:58

thank you again everyone and that's it bye thanks thanks for having me

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hello [Music]

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