James Parr: 'The Secret Garden'

0:00

coming up on reframed we do the positive

0:03

happy normal

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lives

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just i just didn't find any of the

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characters like particularly endearing

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like i reckon that was the most

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inclusive and diverse casting i've seen

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for a long time that's what we're all

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about on reframe so that's great

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welcome back to reframed the podcast

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that reframes how disability is

0:30

portrayed in film and tv i'm your host

0:32

jason claimo and today i have robin

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lamberd with me as my co-host along with

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this week's special guest who's james

0:40

parr and today

0:42

we'll be discussing a movie that uh i

0:44

don't think many of us really loved

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which is the secret garden we've chosen

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to review the most recent iteration of

0:50

this film which was the 2020 version um

0:54

but i think

0:55

you know hands down we can say that

0:57

i think all iterations of this film is

1:00

probably not going to be great um but

1:03

before we get stuck into that let's

1:04

learn a bit more about james so welcome

1:07

to the podcast james hey guys here going

1:10

thanks for coming

1:12

thanks for having me

1:14

did you just want to start off by uh

1:16

telling everyone who you are what you do

1:19

i'm james palmer 24 years old

1:22

i am

1:23

i'm a few things so like i never know

1:25

what to say but i am a model i'm a

1:28

student welfare officer and educational

1:30

support staff at two different primary

1:32

schools

1:33

i

1:34

am a triathlete

1:36

we'll stop it there

1:38

well

1:39

geez way to make us feel inadequate

1:43

you're welcome

1:46

um do you want to tell us a little bit

1:47

about the the modeling cause i know i

1:49

think you've recently signed with um

1:51

zebedee and that's pretty exciting and

1:53

why you got involved in those kind of

1:54

things yeah look i i it all sort of

1:56

started randomly um

1:58

about i know two years ago

2:01

i

2:02

have always been confident from the

2:04

camera i guess

2:05

my jason why are you laughing

2:09

i just love i've always been confident

2:12

i guess

2:13

well

2:14

i think that's like

2:15

an okay thing to say because i have

2:18

so like when when i got um when i did

2:20

like my very first thing i was like okay

2:22

like was random it was literally for my

2:24

friend's clothing shop

2:26

um her family business so i was like oh

2:29

yeah let's do it and then sorta just

2:31

went on from then i freelanced for a

2:34

year

2:35

and then zebedee reached out to me twice

2:38

back then i guess i was sore um sort of

2:41

like

2:43

it had just sort of fallen into my hand

2:45

so i wasn't sure that it was actually

2:48

something that i could save her shoe or

2:50

um a career path that was

2:54

gonna lead anywhere yeah um yeah so i

2:57

signed with zebedee i think last year

3:00

and um yeah

3:03

the rest is history

3:05

it's getting everywhere

3:07

i love that that's awesome yeah

3:09

yeah i think

3:11

the

3:13

really i think like the um

3:16

sort of push or like force for me to do

3:18

it

3:19

was

3:20

you know i had lost my leg two years ago

3:23

and when i had that transition from you

3:25

know i was 23 so i

3:28

had two legs i was an able-bodied person

3:31

for 22 years of my life

3:33

and in that 22 years did i actually

3:36

really ever see

3:37

a disabled person or a person with

3:38

prosthetic

3:40

no did i see them represented in the

3:42

media or

3:44

any any advertising no so

3:47

when i went through that transition

3:51

i really

3:52

i didn't struggle with

3:54

losing

3:55

or having the leg amputated i'm also

3:57

struggled with the perception and

4:00

you know negative connotation or stigma

4:03

and stereotypes all around that and how

4:05

people would look at me so

4:07

i guess

4:08

part of the push and

4:11

also why i want to do it now as being

4:14

someone who was disabled was to rewrite

4:16

that narrative one that it is not

4:18

negative and there's nothing sad about

4:20

it and we do live positive happy normal

4:23

lives

4:24

and

4:25

that

4:26

you know

4:27

anyone can come

4:28

become disabled at any time so if

4:31

anyone's going to go through that

4:32

transition at least

4:35

i can say that i was in a position or

4:37

provide some representation for them and

4:39

you know to sort of make that transition

4:41

a bit more seamless

4:43

well that's what we're all about on

4:44

reframe so that's great

4:47

i love that i always sort of bang on a

4:50

little bit about

4:51

how i feel like when i became disabled

4:54

that if society wasn't so up

4:57

about it all i probably would have been

4:59

a lot less up about it at all too

5:01

so

5:02

like i reckon i was at the start of this

5:04

year or maybe towards the end of last

5:06

year but i had had gone to an ultrasound

5:11

i'm pregnant um

5:14

plot twist

5:16

um

5:18

yeah just for something totally random

5:20

and you know the radiographer

5:23

yeah

5:26

um

5:27

you know was asking questions what

5:29

happened to my leg all that sort of

5:30

stuff

5:31

that's fine i feel like someone when if

5:34

it's medical professional asking any

5:35

questions i'm totally chill more so if

5:38

it was just someone

5:39

what happened i wouldn't say anything

5:41

but um so it answered all their

5:43

questions and i was waiting for it to

5:45

get to the part like oh that's so sad or

5:47

she hadn't said it yet i was like oh

5:48

this is interesting and then it got to

5:50

like how old are you and i said 23 or 24

5:53

however old i was at the time

5:55

with that

5:57

and then i was like i looked at her and

5:59

i was like

6:00

what

6:02

she didn't have an answer

6:04

yeah and i said i'm like no tell me like

6:06

what's so about it

6:08

oh like you know like that you lost your

6:09

leg and i was like

6:13

and

6:14

she didn't have an answer and i was like

6:15

look i'm not offended

6:17

um but

6:19

next time you say that to someone have a

6:21

bit of think about it have a bit of

6:24

thought

6:25

about why you think it's

6:27

because my life isn't my life is

6:29

probably better than yours

6:31

and

6:32

you know thankfully i'm someone that's

6:35

confident and i don't care

6:38

but if you were to say that to someone

6:40

who went through a traumatic experience

6:41

that then resulted in the loss of their

6:43

limb that's just going to reiterate that

6:45

their life is or that it is

6:48

from you so don't say it again

6:50

yeah honestly get them preach

6:53

it's just like automated in their brain

6:57

but in saying that i'll be the first one

6:58

to put my hand up and sometimes i'll

7:00

have that internalized opalism

7:04

oh that's no it's not sad i'm just

7:06

saying that because that's what i've

7:07

been taught to say programmed yeah yeah

7:09

or that that's the way that it's been

7:10

portrayed to you because like sometimes

7:13

like especially and that's what we talk

7:14

about here is sometimes like film and tv

7:17

and fashion and whatever the else

7:19

like portrays things in such a way that

7:22

just keeps entrenching these ideas in

7:23

people's minds so sometimes i'm like i

7:25

can kind of understand why you think

7:26

this way but we need to try and unpack

7:28

it so even when it comes to modeling

7:31

and when it comes to modeling i guess i

7:33

get really picky and really suss on

7:36

some sort of jobs because i'm like why

7:38

are you picking me

7:39

yeah and what you wanted more

7:42

even

7:43

so yeah even when it comes to like

7:45

disability specific modeling like little

7:48

fashion or um

7:49

you know i did one recently i won't say

7:51

what it is but i did um a video

7:55

recently i didn't really want to do it

7:56

but i just did it more so because i knew

7:58

it was

7:59

their idea was put forward very well but

8:02

when they actually released what they

8:04

had done

8:05

i was like this is

8:07

you've just portrayed and made that

8:09

whole

8:10

sort of oh this is sad yeah

8:12

that's not what i wanted so it's like

8:15

to be really picky and

8:16

um

8:17

i just did melbourne fashion week i did

8:19

three shows there and i thought again

8:21

like is this going to be tokenistic

8:24

um

8:25

they're just ticking a box with me but

8:27

i guess i i reckon that was the most

8:29

inclusive and diverse casting i've seen

8:32

for a long time i believe no one was

8:35

casted

8:36

just to tick a box or yeah for a

8:39

disability

8:40

um

8:41

yeah that's great love and fashion make

8:43

you doing good stuff we've

8:45

given them a bit of our time on this

8:46

podcast actually

8:49

they're gonna have to come on as like a

8:50

sponsor or something i'll go hit the

8:53

mountain

8:54

next season

8:55

yeah literally i'm like um

8:58

no it's good um is there like something

9:00

that stands out as one of your favorite

9:03

jobs that you have done so far and i

9:05

guess why like it maybe it is melbourne

9:07

fashion week i i think the woods

9:10

yeah i think it would be that i think

9:11

that was the coolest

9:13

um you know like i've done a few

9:15

editorial a few campaigns a few just

9:18

commercialized stuff magazines jason um

9:23

that was just something i never thought

9:24

i would

9:25

have on the cards um

9:28

yeah you know

9:29

and i kept thinking about it like you

9:30

know when you're little and you watch

9:32

runways and then you're like oh yeah i'm

9:33

gonna practice walking down a freaking

9:35

runway and then next minute i'm actually

9:37

walking down the runway i was

9:39

9:40

when i was little there was my brother

9:42

was like

9:43

remember that time you put on that

9:44

purple dress and put on some eye shadow

9:47

and constructed down the street like the

9:49

main street like it was the runway now

9:50

you're going to be on a runway i'm like

9:52

i'm prepared for this

9:53

you're a bond friend

9:54

now we just need to get the purple dress

9:58

let's revive the purple dress

10:00

i wish i could find a photo if i ever

10:02

find a photo honestly if you do send it

10:04

through and i'll put it on the podcast

10:08

love it well i think we've spoken enough

10:10

about you

10:11

and now it's time to talk about our film

10:14

for today which is

10:16

the secret garden so the sacred garden

10:18

follows our main character mary who is a

10:21

10 year old girl who's kind of starts

10:23

off as this really spoiled girl who is

10:26

in living in india with her rich parents

10:28

um her parents then die and she sent

10:30

over to yorkshire to live with her uncle

10:33

who's played by colin firth

10:35

the story sort of just unfolds that

10:38

while she's staying at miss with white

10:39

mana in yorkshire that she finds out she

10:42

has a cousin called colin

10:44

and colin is the whole reason we're

10:46

really talking about the sacred garden

10:49

today uh because he is a wheelchair user

10:53

um who essentially has spent his entire

10:55

life in bed

10:57

um because of the fear that he will

11:00

develop a

11:01

i guess they're calling it hunchback

11:03

syndrome

11:04

um and

11:05

the way that disability is portrayed in

11:07

this film is quite interesting because

11:09

at the end colin actually does

11:11

find out that he

11:13

can walk

11:15

and i guess the whole thing is that the

11:16

secret garden is

11:18

possibly magical and possibly has

11:20

something to do with colin

11:22

seemingly getting better uh let's just

11:25

kick it off with robin i feel like

11:27

you've got very strong thoughts gosh

11:28

like firstly i just want to say that it

11:30

was just regardless of disability and

11:32

its portrayal of disability it was just

11:34

a terrible movie so it was very hard for

11:36

me to sit down and and watch this so um

11:40

i apologize yeah you really made my work

11:42

quite hard today um

11:44

um but yeah i mean

11:46

i guess um we should preface by saying

11:48

it's based on a book a pretty old book

11:51

uh written in a time that was definitely

11:54

not as progressive um but the portrayal

11:57

of disability in this i think was

11:58

possibly one of the worst that we've

12:00

watched uh on this podcast so far

12:03

um very much betrayed just you know

12:06

people with disabilities as being like

12:08

dependent um like just a victim of their

12:11

situation

12:12

uh colin i think his name is like just

12:14

doesn't get out of bed like um you know

12:17

it's very sensitive and just

12:20

not a very likable character anyways but

12:23

um yeah and then obviously you know

12:25

without spoiling too much the end is all

12:27

about him sort of just

12:29

using a positive attitude to overcome

12:31

what may or may not be a disability in

12:34

the end

12:36

um so yeah i i wasn't wasn't really a

12:39

fan but how about how about you guys

12:41

there for me there was like it okay it

12:44

took me three goes to watch it

12:47

and then the last time i was i

12:49

sat myself down and i was like right i

12:52

need to buckle it

12:54

it's hard

12:55

um

12:56

but actually the more i sort of watched

12:57

it the more i actually didn't mind it

13:00

um

13:01

when it comes to the portrayal of the

13:03

disability

13:05

there were

13:06

a few a few things that i took away one

13:08

was 39 1947 so

13:11

what a great

13:13

how far have we come so far since then

13:16

like to have that portrayal yes it was

13:18

negative but then look at what we're

13:20

doing now and how far we've come already

13:22

we still have so much more

13:24

so much further to go

13:25

next thing

13:27

i'm diagnosing the father of colin with

13:30

munchausen by proxy

13:33

yeah

13:35

i thought it was going to be that sort

13:36

of story when i started watching um

13:39

so

13:40

i think

13:42

because he did he wasn't disabled in the

13:44

end was he

13:45

no

13:46

well it was like sort of played into

13:48

this whole narrative of like izzy or

13:51

isn't he is it the like with the right

13:53

attitude like yeah and also like that is

13:56

the garden magic

13:58

or is it not and i was like

14:00

more so about like the attitude or that

14:03

sort of stuff

14:04

i guess

14:05

it was nice to see the other characters

14:08

mary

14:09

yeah

14:10

mary and colin

14:12

say bond

14:13

over

14:14

say their loss and then figure out

14:17

that he actually wasn't disabled

14:20

i found that quite nice to watch

14:23

but

14:24

i think the betrayal yeah all they that

14:26

was negative he was stuck in a bed he

14:28

couldn't do anything no one could look

14:29

at him

14:30

um

14:31

mary couldn't even talk to him

14:33

she she did that sneakingly um

14:37

so i guess everything

14:40

what disability is was portrayed

14:44

the opposite

14:46

i think there was one part that i was

14:48

like oh that's like could could almost

14:50

be a slight redeeming factor and that

14:51

was when

14:52

um mary said like about his wheelchair

14:55

she's like nah it's good it moves well

14:57

like like we should like sort of go out

14:59

in your chair like why are you not using

15:01

this sort of thing so mary's whole

15:03

initial attitude is like literally the

15:05

like

15:06

one tiny bit of like gleaming light

15:09

within the show that this movie was

15:11

i feel in terms of representing

15:13

disability but also it was just kind of

15:14

really boring and i mean all other times

15:16

i found her like so irritating which i

15:18

think was the whole point it's just so

15:20

positive but her attitude towards

15:24

colin and just like yeah almost like

15:27

not i wouldn't say indifference because

15:29

like she acknowledged his like

15:31

disability

15:32

but

15:34

didn't really like phase her too much

15:36

like she was just like oh like we just

15:38

sort of like do this and that and like

15:40

i'll help you sort of thing which i

15:41

thought that was like the one sort of

15:43

redeeming

15:44

the regular scene

15:46

that i found was really nice

15:50

i'm gonna say it's not gonna sound nice

15:51

but

15:54

more i think about colin's sitting on

15:55

the ground and she's just in there

15:57

having to damn your time with that

15:58

wheelchair and i just thought

16:01

okay you're not a wheelchair user but

16:03

how nice is it that

16:05

they are able to have that sort of

16:07

relationship where

16:09

he gets out she's just trick um

16:12

you know

16:13

it is normal but back then and when the

16:15

movie is set it isn't normal and it

16:17

wasn't perceived as being normal but she

16:20

was making it sort of like this whole

16:21

normal

16:22

um phased unphased and just sort of

16:25

treating him

16:28

not so different when

16:30

other characters were

16:32

um i thought that was really nice yeah

16:35

yeah yeah and i think even at the end

16:37

when because she was using a walking

16:39

stick even to see the progression of his

16:42

mobility aids like as long as she asked

16:45

if she can use the wheelchair yeah

16:48

i don't know i think it was just like

16:50

some montage like music

16:54

i guess one of my like biggest arguments

16:56

was like why does this need to be remade

16:59

like could we not have

17:01

just a better

17:02

disability narrative out there like

17:04

we've had this before it's obviously

17:07

certainly not perfect or like you know

17:08

there's a lot that could be improved

17:09

about it

17:11

is it necessary like that we do this no

17:13

i'm kind of scared that we're going to

17:15

get savaged online by like

17:17

cult yeah there's people that are like

17:19

obsessed with the secret garden and

17:21

they're like no it's the best movie ever

17:22

you have no idea you don't understand i

17:24

don't think we'll find anyone that's

17:25

obsessed with it

17:29

very slow start yeah yeah

17:32

um

17:33

there was also um

17:36

one of the very first scenes where

17:38

there's a

17:39

an amputee using crutches

17:42

i actually thought that was quite a nice

17:43

scene because

17:45

it was just there no one was looking yes

17:47

mary looked probably the first time

17:49

she'd ever seen one so i think that's

17:50

okay

17:51

let's keep in mind that she's a child so

17:52

yeah

17:54

you know she did look i think that's

17:55

fine

17:56

um

17:57

but he was just there and there was no

17:59

sort of attention

18:01

bought whereas when you look at colin

18:04

everything was so

18:06

you know dramatized dramatized yeah um

18:10

very

18:11

everything was about him and i think why

18:13

he was so

18:15

because you guys said you hated him

18:17

well just i just didn't find any of the

18:19

characters like particularly endearing

18:22

like

18:23

yeah

18:23

why he was so selfish and so

18:25

self-centered at the start was because

18:27

everything was about him yeah and so i

18:30

think

18:30

over time it was nice to see that

18:33

different side of colin but then again

18:36

that was only because you know he's

18:38

having a positive outlook on his

18:40

disability that may not i don't know be

18:42

confused it was a bit confusing i think

18:44

they also kind of like

18:47

played into a lot of stereotypes like

18:48

with colin's father like i would say

18:51

that in modern times we would say that

18:52

he has a form of disability um whereas

18:55

back then they just caught him a

18:56

hunchback which is like not great um

18:59

and i think they kind of

19:01

weaponized like him

19:04

as a character because it was like

19:06

in this remake because i don't think it

19:08

was actually in the original film but in

19:10

this remake he

19:12

has this like fear that his son is going

19:14

to develop i guess the same condition

19:18

and

19:19

therefore just like have this terrible

19:20

life so he's like just stay in bed all

19:22

the time because otherwise you will hurt

19:24

your spine

19:25

um

19:26

and i feel like they just played into

19:28

this whole narrative that like

19:30

people disability are either like colin

19:32

who are just like hopeless stuck in bed

19:34

or like colin's father who are like

19:37

these like really bitter resentful

19:39

villains who will like inflict suffering

19:41

on other people

19:42

i guess when you look at like the the

19:44

wider picture like every character in

19:46

that movie had some kind of trauma like

19:48

someone they loved has like died or like

19:51

you know so like

19:53

yeah you can't i guess you can't expect

19:55

them to be perfect people yeah even the

19:57

dog yeah

19:59

so it's just like i don't have yeah how

20:01

do you make a better movie with so many

20:03

characters that are so like traumatized

20:06

and flawed

20:07

yeah literally i think they would have

20:08

had to completely have changed like the

20:10

whole like plot and narrative of it

20:13

which you know they probably legally

20:15

weren't allowed to anyway but still

20:16

we're reviewing it and it was a terrible

20:18

narrative i feel like they could have

20:22

made some scenes a bit more

20:24

or you know the the

20:27

whole narrative just a bit more

20:31

and positive

20:33

and i i i guess it is a negative story

20:36

because we're looking at you know

20:37

everyone's affected by trauma

20:39

and i guess that's why colin is

20:41

bedridden because his dad's had so much

20:43

trauma he's trying to protect him

20:45

but then again

20:46

that plays into

20:49

that disabled people need protecting and

20:52

we can't do things for ourselves

20:54

and it just sort of keeps pushing with

20:56

that narrative

20:57

yeah

20:58

not great not okay

21:00

also the garden

21:02

that's a forest

21:04

yeah i know i was like that is not a

21:05

garden

21:07

garden who's been maintaining that this

21:09

whole time

21:10

i sort of thought

21:13

that they were portraying yeah the

21:15

secret garden to be some sort of magic

21:17

and that was what cured

21:20

him colin his disability

21:24

yeah i just feel like they played into

21:25

like every stereotype ever and they like

21:27

almost weaponized disability it would

21:29

have been interesting to see them like

21:30

highlight those stereotypes but then

21:33

maybe do something a little bit like

21:34

subversive with them like but instead

21:36

they just did like textbook like they

21:38

were just like yeah that's good with

21:39

this yeah

21:41

yeah i think like 2020 everybody love

21:43

that there was like possibly room there

21:45

to do something like a bit different and

21:46

to just

21:47

turn those stereotypes on their head but

21:49

yeah

21:50

yeah

21:52

yeah and like definitely just use

21:54

disability as a tool in the narrative to

21:56

like be like this is terrible and now

21:58

he's happy now at the end yay the secret

22:00

garden is magic instead of actually like

22:02

delving into any sort of

22:05

actual representation of disability or

22:07

even kind of

22:09

really defining what disability is like

22:11

i feel like oh my god the kids that

22:13

watch that film are going to come up to

22:14

me and be like

22:16

i'll take you to the secret garden and

22:18

you'll walk again and i'll be like

22:19

how it works actually

22:25

maybe you just haven't found the right

22:26

garden

22:27

literally oh my god i was so confused

22:30

when like all the plants were like dying

22:32

and then like coming back to life like i

22:33

was like why is no one looking around

22:35

and being like wow the whole thing's

22:37

like turned into like

22:39

death and

22:40

anyway i think it's time to give our

22:42

scores

22:43

james you go first i thought you're

22:45

going to be the nicest out of five on

22:47

the inclusive disability representation

22:49

scale what did you give what

22:51

that was not nice not even a one like

22:55

zero

22:56

i thought you brought like up some

22:57

points about it like not being too

22:59

terrible

23:00

no

23:01

i said one because i was like is it one

23:03

to five and then i thought about like

23:04

now i can say zero

23:06

it's like negative numbers i think we've

23:08

had like negative five at one point

23:10

oh really robin oh yeah i mean if we're

23:13

going low as one let's go one cause like

23:16

yeah there wasn't much great about this

23:18

like i said there was a few things where

23:20

i was like oh look like they're trying

23:21

to make mobility aids like a tool like

23:24

but you know getting out there rather

23:26

than being some negative thing but on a

23:28

whole like yeah it was just very like

23:31

classic textbook negative stereotypes so

23:34

yep yeah no i was a 0.5 out of 5.

23:39

just go with those half numbers so that

23:41

i don't have to uh be an absolute zero

23:43

um and yeah literally just because of

23:46

like they just use disability as a tool

23:48

and as like a weapon to like destroy

23:50

characters but also like build

23:52

characters up and i was just like this

23:54

is not for

23:56

me

23:57

to portray that whole disability death

24:00

bedridden yeah can't do anything yeah

24:03

can't look at them

24:04

um you know there's a scene where i

24:06

think

24:07

the nanny

24:09

um

24:10

is like

24:11

don't expect him to come running

24:15

and that's like

24:17

calm down have you watched a bit of the

24:19

movie

24:21

spoilers

24:22

yeah well wasn't she wrong

24:25

yeah

24:26

you haven't been to that sacred garden

24:28

too funny

24:30

well that is it for this week's episode

24:32

thank you so much to both of you for

24:35

joining me and thank you everyone at

24:37

home for following along um obviously

24:40

this week was not a very good film so i

24:43

think next week we'll have to pick

24:44

something a bit more positive um as

24:46

always follow us on our social channels

24:49

uh you can just literally search

24:50

reframed podcast and you'll find us on

24:52

twitter facebook and instagram and let

24:54

us know what you thought of the secret

24:57

garden um if you hadn't watched it and

24:59

you watched this first i think we

25:00

spoiled pretty much all of it and also

25:02

we told you that it's so boring

25:04

that you shouldn't watch it

25:06

so sorry

25:07

um but anyway let us know in the

25:09

comments or you can also send us an

25:11

email at hello reframed podcast

25:12

reframedpodcast.com

25:15

and we'll see you next time

25:23

[Music]

25:36

[Music]

25:45

[Applause]

25:47

you